David Cullinane (Sinn Fein)

I move amendment No. 1:

In page 4, line 22, after "Reform," to insert the following:

"the Houses of the Oireachtas, relevant agencies and local authorities".

I would like to speak on amendments Nos. 1 and 2. I will not pursue amendment No. 5. I assume the Minister of State understands the logic that underpins amendments Nos. 1 and 2, which are similar in nature. The amendments seek to ensure there is relevant consultation before any decision is made. The amendments provide that "the Houses of the Oireachtas, relevant agencies and local authorities" will have to be consulted. Although it is stated in the Bill that this section relates to "corporate bodies", my understanding is that it relates primarily to the Local Government Management Services Board. The section will streamline some of the existing powers, functions and services of the board or of local authorities with the intention of saving money, eliminating waste and creating efficiencies. We do not have any difficulty with attempts to create efficiencies and save money, but we do have a difficulty with the proposal to give the Minister the sole power to make decisions in this regard. Therefore, the purpose of amendments Nos. 1 and 2 is to increase the democratic input into such decisions.

Section 5 will give the Minister the power to establish bodies to assist him or her in carrying out these duties. Given that some of the functions of any such body are likely to be among the key functions currently performed by existing organisations, including local authorities, it is not appropriate for them to be transferred by means of a mere ministerial order. Such an approach has the potential to undermine significantly the operation of local government. I am sure we will discuss the local government aspects of this matter as we make progress through the various sections of the Bill. There is a fear that many of the decisions that are being made on local government reform are not being made on the basis of genuine consultation. Democratic involvement is needed as part of inclusive negotiations with all the relevant bodies, such as the local authorities and the agencies that might be losing powers or being subsumed into other organisations. There is a particular need for the Members of both Houses of the Oireachtas to be consulted. That is central to these amendments. The primary function of this House is to ensure Senators can make an input into important decisions of this nature.

Amendment No. 2 is similar to amendment No. 1 in the sense that it aims to provide for greater clarity and accountability. Section 5 of the Bill provides that when the Minister is making an order and potentially taking some services away, he or she shall have regard to "the promotion of efficiency, effectiveness and economy in the organisation and provision of the services in question". I suggest that a determination should also be made on whether centralisation, regionalisation or localisation are desirable when the number of bodies providing these services is being reduced. Many questions should be asked when a decision of this nature is being made. The local authorities and the Houses of the Oireachtas are uniquely well-placed to recognise whether any of these criteria are being met. That should not be determined solely by means of a ministerial order. This House and the Lower House should have a say as well.

Any proposal to transfer or subsume powers is important, even if the changes in some areas are slight. While we do not want to micro-manage every aspect of what a Minister does, we should have a say when he or she intends to take powers from one body and give them to another body. We should ensure that some of the decisions that could be made under this legislation are referred to this House to be decided on by democratically elected Members of the Oireachtas. Such decisions - we will speak later in this debate about the proposal to give the Minister the power to amalgamate local authorities - should not be made by the Minister alone. There will be a democratic deficit if the people who live in those communities are not consulted. I suggest such a decision should be the subject of a plebiscite in the locality in question, rather than being made by means of a ministerial order. I will not speak on amendment No. 5 as I do not intend to pursue it. I remind the Minister that I have proposed amendments No. 1 and 2 to ensure that when these decisions are being made, there is relevant consultation with "the Houses of the Oireachtas, relevant agencies and local authorities", rather than such decisions being made by the Minister alone.