Thomas Byrne (Fianna Fail)

I second the motion. I thank my colleague, Senator Daly, for doggedly pursuing this issue which is of great concern to him. I remind the Minister and his officials that the last time Senator Daly used parliamentary privilege - which I presume he is using in some of his statements - it was a very effective use of Seanad privilege and has resulted in a Garda investigation of child sexual abuse in the Munster region. Therefore, when Senator Daly uses privilege he is to be listened to and what he says must be taken very seriously. I do not think he uses it just for the fun of it.

He raised a very serious issue of considerable public concern. I am aware of a situation and I am happy to provide the details to the Minister after this debate as I am not prepared to put those details on the record of the House. An auctioneer was called by a legal adviser in IBRC and asked if it would be appropriate for a person whose property had been repossessed to bid at an auction. The auctioneer was absolutely shocked that a solicitor would ask such a question and he replied it would be completely inappropriate. In fact, the same auctioneer announced at the auction that this person or his representatives were prohibited from bidding on the property. When I brought this case to the attention of Senator Daly, he amended the Bill to include IBRC because the same principles apply to both NAMA and the IBRC.

My party was criticised when the NAMA scheme was first introduced with accusations that we were trying to do some deal. Deputy Bruton at the time accused us of looking after developers in a secret deal to benefit our friends. The Labour Party made great fun of the notion of properties abroad being subject to NAMA but thank God for them because they are the only properties bringing in any money. The arguments against the establishment of NAMA were quite simplistic in many ways. I do not mean to say NAMA was the perfect solution but the arguments against it were very simplistic. NAMA is working, although it is not working that well. The public need to have confidence in NAMA because of the size of the problem and the size of the black hole which the two entities which comprise IBRC have presented. The Irish public are entitled to the information which Senator Daly proposes in section 3 of the Bill. NAMA's action on the properties under its control is nowhere near enough and this is an important point because banks are selling properties. Apartments in my area are going at a very cheap price and they are all being sold privately. I do not see any advertisements for their sale. Apartments taking in rents of up to €10,000 a year are being sold at about €85,000 to €90,000 in private sales by banks. This results in a significant return to investors who are able to find out which properties are for sale. A local auctioneer or a willing seller will be looking for substantially more than what the banks are willing to take for the properties. These properties are being sold by the banks with a return of 12.5% to 13% but many people do not know about this and this information must be made available to all. Such information would provide the confidence that everything is above board. As Senator Daly said, such information gives people the opportunity to take advantage of such sales and it would also result in higher prices and better returns for the taxpayer.

NAMA will forever be branded as a Fianna Fáil proposal and it is very important that those of us in the Fianna Fáil Party keep an eye on the organisation to ensure it is working in the best interests of the taxpayer which in my view it intends to do. Senator Daly has shown there is a dire need for this legislation as proposed by him. We are not alleging any fraudulent activity by NAMA nor any wrongdoing but we maintain there is not sufficient transparency and the public have a right to know what is happening. If that process is brought to its logical conclusion, which would be to support this Bill, the public could benefit because properties would be sold at higher prices and more people would bid on them.

I reiterate that when Senator Daly reveals facts in this House he should be listened to very closely.