Sean Barrett (Independent)

I welcome the Minister of State to the House. What we have embarked upon today is very important. We know we need to be able to live within our means, which will occupy us all in coming years. I assure the Minister of State that she will have support from these benches because it is vital that we be able to return to the markets and run our finances in an economical way.

The problem with which we are trying to grapple is put very succinctly on page 12 of the report of an bord snip, which pointed out that from 1997 to 2009 the number of senior Civil Service managers rose by 82% as opposed to a 27% increase in the Civil Service as a whole. That is reflected in local government in the McLoughlin report, which found that there were ten surplus county managers; 50 surplus directors of service; 112 surplus corporate services staff; 171 surplus planning staff; and 250 surplus roads staff. It recommended the reduction of Dublin City Council and Cork City Council by 1,185 giving total reductions at the management level of 1,778. A comprehensive survey on this issue was carried out by Jennifer Hough in the Irish Examiner on 9 April last. She found that Carlow, with a population of 54,500, had five directors of services while Westmeath, with a population of 89,000, got by with just two. These managerial layers must be discussed. Sometimes one wonders at the ostentation of the titles of directors of services, such as community and enterprise; economic development; corporate services; finance information technology; transportation, safety and emergency services; housing; recreation, amenity and special projects. These are small counties with grandiose titles. One cannot have a separate economic policy for Carlow and for Westmeath. The rationalisation by the Department, which the Minister is embarking on today, is commendable. We must run public services within the capability of the public purse to finance them.

I commend the Minister of State and wish her good luck in her endeavours. The McLoughlin report shows that a great deal of work is required in this area and, as I know from talking to them, most people in the local authorities know that. They tend to hanker after the time when a road engineer was the person with a shovel who cleared up drains, and there was a county engineer and a county manager. The citizens or customers of local authorities also wonder how all these layers were introduced between them and the people with whom they deal. I wish the Minister of State every success in tackling this problem.