Jim Walsh (Fianna Fail)

Figures of between €400 and €600 million have been expressed. Most business people will look for an internal rate of return of between 20% and 30%. In this case, they may settle for somewhat less than that but there will still be a significant double digit rate of return. Those sums could be used more prudently by the State. Selling off that profit to a private operator shows a complete lack of vision.

If we wanted to go this route, surely we would not leave the lacuna of going online which could see a significant escalation in returns. I am involved in a small project, the John F. Kennedy trust, in New Ross. We invested in the famine ship, Dunbrody, a visitor centre and a coffee shop. The trust's board examined franchising the coffee shop because it was not part of our expertise. At the time it was recommended not to franchise it out because we were not sure what revenue would accrue from it. The revenue is now multiples of what we expected. The centre would have lost out considerably if we had franchised the coffee shop because we would have let it go far more cheaply. It is the very same in this instance.

In the first year of the lotto, sales came to €170 million. In 2011, sales came to €760 million, a four and a half fold increase. At the end of the new proposed licence in 20 years, lottery sales could be somewhere north of €3 billion per year. Can one imagine the percentage that will be accrued in profit? I predict that in the last two years it will recover the quantum. While there is a time element, that is a factor that has not been taken into account. Clearly, from a business perspective it does not stack up. We are taking a capital sum, as the Minister said, but we are sacrificing ongoing annual income to the State, which is a big mistake and will be a major loss. It will be seen as such in time. This is the time to stop it. As the Minister said, he will take up the invitation to meet the proposer and seconder of the motion and I hope he will listen to them.

The children's hospital has been thrown into the mix. It is a red herring, as it has nothing to do with the disposal of the licence. We should find a management company, define what the management fee will be, set out the criteria it must meet and the remaining income should come to the State for the good causes it supports and to fund other projects. There is a hospital in my town which was established as a community hospital, as Senator Michael D'Arcy will be aware. That would not have happened without a commitment to meet the ongoing costs of running it. It has been in place for the past 20 years.

This will be similar to the levy on pension schemes. A figure of 0.6% was imposed. As in the case of the children's hospital, the money was supposed to be used to create jobs. As soon the funds had come on stream, they were taken into the Exchequer. Will the money be used to increase the salaries of the advisers, party hacks, being brought on board?