Aideen Hayden (Labour)

I thank Senators O'Donnell and Mary Ann O'Brien for raising this matter. When I first read the motion, its wider relevance was not immediately clear to me. As the debate has progressed, it is clear there are wider issues. The overall programme of privatisation is an important issue and should be debated regularly. To some extent, I do not agree with Senator Barrett, as privatisation does not always work. Across the water in the UK, there are many shining examples of privatisation that have not worked.

I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Perry, to the House. The Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, Deputy Howlin, made a robust defence of what he has in mind for the national lottery. I was reassured. It might be a statement of the obvious, but the national children's hospital is a vital strategic development. Yesterday saw the announcement of the first phase of development of the national rehabilitation centre in Loughlinstown, Dún Laoghaire, which is my constituency. In the previous 14 years of Fianna Fáil Government, not a single significant public hospital was developed. The last such development was Tallaght hospital when I was almost a child in short pants. My colleagues on the other side of the House are laughing, but this is no laughing matter. The children's hospital is an important strategic development. Even if I believed the preservation of the national lottery in State hands was more important than it is, I would need to weigh its significance against the importance of building a national children's hospital today and not in five or six years time when we will have the capacity to raise the necessary funding.

A number of good points have been made and well answered. However, some points could be restated. The Minister has made clear the Government's commitment that jobs in the national lottery will be protected. There is also a commitment that the margins of the distribution network and individual retailers will be protected, which will in turn protect jobs in the retail sector. Although such commitments may impact on the envelope the State can expect to receive, it is important, when we sell this or any other asset, we do so with the protection of employees and wider society to the fore.

A valid point has been made. If one is to protect retailers and, via the 30.5% floor, good causes, from where will the money come to make bidding for the national lottery profitable? It will come from the prize fund. If that fund is not maintained, the person who bids for the lottery will be biting the hand that feeds him or her. The prize money must be maintained.

The way forward for the national lottery is growth. Would it be the end of the world if a company such as Camelot was to bid for it and bring it to Australia, Canada, the US or other countries where there is a significant interest in Irish affairs? It is not beyond the realm of possibility that we could grow the lottery significantly. When we put together the request for tender, RFT, we should include growth as an important strategic aim.

Senator Mary Ann O'Brien asked when it was a good time to sell an asset. It is when one needs the money, and we need the money now. As someone who has had children in the hospital system down the years and whose close friend's child died of leukaemia, I am well aware of the hospital system's inadequacies. The time to sell is now. The lottery is not a port, a strategic infrastructural asset or a bog. Its sale will not impact on the economy's capacity to do its business. Weighing the balance of what can be achieved by its sale versus what can be achieved by its retention, selling the lottery is a good strategic move if all the interests of the workers, good causes and those who depend on it, including retailers, are protected.