Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)

I have not told them that yet because we have not yet put the shape of the legislation together. We will safeguard the retailers. We will promote the lotto.

I had a private discussion about this with Senator O'Donnell en marge of this House. At the heart of this is a visceral concern about the lotto as a concept. We had a strong debate on the idea of the State promoting a lotto to fund itself or any part of its own services because it is taking advantage of people's desperation for wealth in some instances, but it is the same as putting a few bob on the horses occasionally, and I do not believe we will outlaw gambling on horses. Mature citizens are entitled to gamble, and it is better if it is done in a regulated way. It is better also if, by and large, the proceeds of it go to good causes and to the State.

The two fundamental differences in this process over what happened in the past are, first, we are looking for an upfront payment because we need it desperately in the terrible times we are in and, second, the duration of the lotto licence will be longer. The second facilitates the first. Having a longer-term licence means that we can leverage more money upfront. Considerable technology is invested in establishing a lotto, and all these things must be renewed. They have approximately a ten year lifespan and are very expensive. The longer the lotto is allowed to operate, therefore, the better value it is because less money is gobbled up with technology by handing it over to a new operator.

I said that on the previous two occasions this was tendered for and An Post won. I understand from An Post that it will be a tenderer. I will be impartial in that regard. It is not my business and I should have no view about who comes out the winner in a fair procurement system but I am aware there were other tenderers on the previous occasion, one of which was the Swiss lotto company. This is nothing different from what happened previously and I assure the House, particularly those who are passionate about this, that all concerns will be taken into account. When we shape the legislation I will bring it before the House and if Members can find loopholes or difficulties in it that I or the Government have not seen, I assure them I will have an open ear to their concerns.

I will deal with some final points. Senator O'Donnell probably has a niggling view of the value of a lotto in supporting State coffers, but that is something about which we might have a separate debate. Legislation will determine the regime. The amount we will get for good causes will be ring-fenced. I will ensure retailers continue to enjoy a fair margin in regard to it. Senator O'Brien should be aware we are not selling off the family silver. We are doing what we normally do in any tendering process that we are obliged to undertake by European law, and if I was handing it out without a tendering process, I would be in here answering a different set of questions.

In terms of the use of funds, I mentioned the national children's hospital. An important but separate issue has been raised, which we might address separately, which is the way those funds, which are a considerable portion of moneys, are distributed and whether it is done in a fair and impartial way. That is a stand-alone issue that I am willing to determine how we can address separately. I do not believe political decisions by nature are always somehow biased and wrong and that there is some tribunal or body of people who are above reproach and will always make righteous decisions, but we must have transparency in this regard, and I am happy to come back to that.

Senator O'Brien referred to the way we will get at the upfront payment. In truth, the more we ring-fence the other elements of it, the more we squeeze the upfront payment. As we do in determining the other assets we are bringing to the market, when the State is in such dire straits, we have tested the market to ensure there is a robust interest in anything we put in the market.

Senator O'Brien said we should not do it right now. Unfortunately, the ship needs bailing out. We cannot wait for it. The children of Ireland need their hospital. We cannot postpone that for better times because we do not know when the better times will come. We must make the best use of the assets we have right now. There will be no fire sale of any assets, and I am convinced we will get a robust response to this process. It will be strictly regulated by law, and in terms of legislation I will bring to this House, I will have an open ear to any amendments or suggestions Members might wish to make. I have asked my departmental officials to deal specifically with the staff of the national lottery. We have not determined how that will be done, but I do not wish to spell it out yet because it would compromise our negotiations. The very competent staff of my Department are also exploring in great detail how we can safeguard minors and others from being exploited in any new licensing regime and how we should deal with retailers.

Senators Darragh O'Brien and Marie-Louise O'Donnell have kindly offered to come forward with suggestions on how we can raise money. I have open ears, if anybody has suggestions to make. The country desperately needs money, not only for the National Children's Hospital but also for other health projects, school projects and all the things we would love to be able to do to drive job creation, growth and development in the economy. I have an open office to hear ideas Members may have.