Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)

I will try to bring some calm to the proceedings. The Minister is welcome back. It is always good to see him in the House. I thank Senator O'Donnell for bringing the motion to House. It is important we debate properly the issues of whether people agree and whether it is simply the sale of a licence or the sale of the lottery. This is something I have called for consistently with regard to the sale of State assets. Far from being ridiculous and far from there being nothing in Senator O'Donnell's speech, this Private Members' motion affords an opportunity for us to discuss in a calm and collected way the merits or otherwise of selling the lottery licence.

I welcome the Minister's comments with regard to the tendering process. I have, however, weighed up the issues and, as currently structured, the proposal is not how I would go about selling the licence. There are other options. It is linked. There is a big and important carrot, namely, the children's hospital, which we are all keen to see advanced as quickly as possible. I genuinely wish the Government well in this regard and I hope we move quickly towards selecting a site, getting on with it and building it. Figures have been bandied about concerning the upfront sale. Obviously, it has not been put out to tender but I assume the Government will set a minimum reserve on this as well, should it proceed in this way, which I hope the Government does not do. I have examined the figures.

Senator Mary Ann O'Brien raised several interesting points. At the moment An Post charges approximately 0.5% of turnover, which is substantial. Last year's figures were in the region of €761 million. How will any private operator make any money out of it? People have raised figures suggesting that the handling fee would have to rise to 6%. If the Government gets an upfront payment of between €300 and €400 million, on the basis of the sales we have seen when they are averaged out, a private operator is likely to receive in the region of €50 million per year. As far as I am concerned, that is easy money. If it is a question that the handling charge is 0.5% with An Post at the moment, why does the Government not make a decision to increase it and keep the licence in Government ownership? The Government should proceed in that way and let people know the fee will be increased from 0.5% to 1% or 2% or whatever. I am keen to hear a response to that proposal. Were the Minister to ring-fence some of the lotto games and draws and make clear they were for the children's hospital, people would buy into it. I realise there would be a downside for the Government. It would not get a large sum of money upfront which would enable it to build the children's hospital. However, I do not believe there has been enough discussion of the sale of the lotto and the concerns raised by RGDATA and Tara Buckley about the impact it would have on more than 4,000 small retailers throughout the country. By the way, no one has mentioned the 100 staff. While it may appear to be a small number, a total of almost 100 staff work directly in the An Post National Lottery Company. What will their position be should the licence be sold by the Government? There are many unanswered questions.

Senator D'Arcy commented on the slush fund ability of the capital sports programme. That is rather amazing. I take it from Senator D'Arcy's comments that neither he nor any of his Government colleagues will make any representations whatsoever to the Minister of State, Deputy Michael Ring, with regard to the next round of the sports capital programme.