Aideen Hayden (Labour)

I welcome the Minister. My contribution will not be as colourful as that of Senator Walsh. We seem to be a nation in which the culture of secrecy pertains, mostly when it comes to matters of a sexual nature. We are all aware of a certain former Taoiseach who was engaged in certain extramarital affairs. This shows the type of society we were, in which everyone knew but no one was prepared to say anything. This is one of the things which stands before us when we are debating the withholding of information on offences against children and vulnerable people. In the past and in recent decades as a nation we have walked away from situations in which it has been common knowledge in certain societies in the country, including small villages and towns and larger cities, that people knew what was going on but they did not act. Several reports have pointed out that part of the reason was that people did not understand exactly how to act or what to do. As a nation we must accept we have a culture of privacy whereby we are not really prepared to engage in other people's private lives. This is something we must address. I welcome the Bill. I believe it will make the matter of when people are supposed to engage and what they are supposed to do clearer for us.

I do not believe the Bill puts an undue burden on ordinary members of society. The threshold or bar is not high. One must have actual knowledge and not only a suspicion. The information must be material in securing the apprehension, prosecution and conviction of a person who commits an offence and there must be no reasonable excuse not to disclose information. The Minister has stated there is no obligation to inform the Garda with regard to any vague rumours, innuendo or suspicions.

This brings me to what could be loosely termed a criticism of the Bill. Concerns have been expressed by the Ombudsman for Children on the matter. On foot of the Bill she has called for significant resources to be put into certain aspects of our social services and the Garda Síochána. It has been brought to our attention through the Ombudsman for Children that we run the risk of undermining the legislation by not putting in place sufficient resources. The mandatory reporting of criminal sanctions in New South Wales, Australia, was abandoned after the authorities became overloaded with reports. I accept the Minister's clarification on what is not to be reported. As Senator Bradford noted, the legislation will require an information campaign. It will also require significant additional resources to be put into support services.

Excluding the retrospective element in the legislation is necessary. I have read several comments by organisations on the matter and I realise there are constitutional issues with regard to whether one can make an offence retrospective. On balance I believe this is the best way to approach the matter.

The Minister has made clear in the matter of defences that sacerdotal privilege is a non-issue. I would prefer if those in the media applied themselves to some of the more serious aspects of the Bill rather than the usual approach of rehashing the issues of clerical abuse and the confessional. Perhaps the Minister can clarify one concern about the defences. An exemption is provided for someone who himself has been the victim of abuse. A significant proportion of the offences which come under the remit of this legislation, especially those concerning children, involve people in a family circumstance whereby they may not be the only member of the family being abused. It is possible for someone to be a victim and also a witness to the abuse of another individual within the family circumstance. How will this be treated in the legislation as drafted?

Some of the concerns about the legislation raised by organisations working in this area reflect the fact the bulk of these offences occur within families. The view is that the culture of secrecy in families is just as strong as in the cases of clerical sexual abuse. These organisations have suggested that non-offending family members should not be obliged to report crimes. In particular, one parent should not be obliged to report an offence committed by the other. I believe the Minister has covered this in the Bill as drafted. However, it is important when one is dealing with children that there should be no doubt about the responsibility of a parent to the most vulnerable person, that is to say, the child. The loyalty of a spouse towards another spouse versus their obligation to their child, in law at least, should not be an issue when it comes to protection. I am very welcoming of the fact that this is part of a wider basket of Bills which will be brought before us which are not designed to protect children only. We all fear old age and not being in control of our destiny. While we have dwelt on the impact of the Bill on children, it will also have an impact on a growing number of people who, for the sake of argument, are suffering from illnesses such as Alzheimer's disease. We must not lose sight of this.