David Norris (Independent)

I agree with Senator Bacik about the situation of this young woman. I do not know the identity of the school, I do not know the girl's name and I do not want to know it. However, it means we need a debate on the relationship between the church and the State. I understand the school is State funded but is managed in a highly individualistic way. One might ask, as the nuns used to tell their students to ask, what the Blessed Virgin Mary would have done in those circumstances. She was an unmarried mother. Would the school have kicked her out as well? It is astonishing that a church that proclaims a particular ethos should do this. Added to this is the attempt by a foreign state to silence a professional journalist in this country, Fr. Brian D'Arcy. That is extremely worrying.

I realise the question of the privileges of the confessional is sensitive and complex, and I look forward to dealing with that as well as the question of the confidential relationship between lawyers and clients and so forth. However, a leading member of an association of priests said he would not accept this from any Minister, especially Deputy Alan Shatter. Would the Leader be kind enough to ask that gentleman what he meant by "especially Alan Shatter"? Was it anything to do with his religion? I do not have a particularly warm relationship with Deputy Shatter but I deprecate any implication of anti-Semitism, and if there was such it should be withdrawn.

I refer the Leader to No. 8 on the Order Paper, taking the Order of Business in the House seriously and ensuring that other committees are not rendered quorate by free range Members of the Seanad allowing them to become quorate when they clash with meetings of this House. We must establish that this House should be treated with respect.

I strongly welcome the planning permission for the development in Athlone for a hub for Chinese business. This is very positive. We must examine it carefully. There should be a major bond given to provide for difficult circumstances.

I could not agree more with Senator Darragh O'Brien. I was shocked to the core when I heard the Minister for Finance say that if we do not vote the way the Government wants, there will be a hard budget. That is basically what he said. It was nothing other than sheer bullying and scaremongering. I know the Irish people and they will react very badly to that. It is not the first time it has been tried by this Government and it is about time it stopped. It has inspired me to be more opposed to the treaty and I probably will canvass against it.

Can we have a discussion about the fact that a number of councils in Dublin have decided to go to English sources for books because of the economies of scale? They are putting Irish people out of work as a result. Perhaps it might be more appropriate to discuss it as an Adjournment matter but I ask the Leader to look into this in advance of that Adjournment debate. Sometimes one gets greater meat if both sides understand the motivations of the other.