Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)

Gabhaim buíochas leis an Seanadóir d'Arcy as a chuid ama a roinnt liom. I welcome the Minister to the House. I understand life has changed significantly in schools since the mid-1990s, so in many ways the report is a little behind the action in terms of patronage. Schools have had to accommodate children from multiple faiths and countries for at least 15 years now.

In preparation for this debate, I rang approximately ten schools and various parents throughout the country, including rural and urban, small and large schools. As a result, I have a set of questions for the Minister rather than a speech and I would like to hear his answers. The first clear point was that the issue of patronage needs to be addressed with great care. We must hasten slowly. Like the report said, we must not go for the big bang, but for a gradual change so that we achieve diversity rather than exclusivity. A two-tier system has already been created in other countries, a two-tier system of exclusion through privatisation of denominational fee paying schools, for example, in the United States. I taught in the US where my first teaching job there was in a Catholic private school. I then got registered to teach in the state system which was non-denominational. The last thing we want to do is to replace our State system with a private denominational system. That is the risk unless we do this carefully and correctly with great consultation and care.

Second, can we ensure diversity by divesting Catholic patronage alone? For example, in particular areas some 99% of pupils are Catholic or Church of Ireland. Therefore, no matter what the Minister does or hopes for, he cannot ensure diversity in those areas. This is particularly true in rural areas. I asked whether any of the schools I contacted had ever refused a child enrolment because the child was not a Catholic and in each case the answer was "No". I believed that. I was also told that the child was not put down to the bottom of the list, which was also a concern. There are always weird examples, but we are talking about the majority of situations. The question I have been asked to raise is: where is the evidence that schools have refused enrolments on religious grounds? We do not see that evidence.