Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)

We referred briefly to this last Friday. We proposed inserting a new section in the Bill but it was ruled out of order. It would have allowed early access to tax free cash for funded pension schemes. I believe there is merit in that proposal. I am aware from our discussion on Friday that the Minister intends to bring forward more substantial pension legislation and we welcome that. We should think outside the box in this regard. As Senator Cullinane mentioned, the Irish Brokers Association produced a very good paper on this. Not surprisingly, it was not supported by the Irish Association of Pension Funds. Why would it want people to take their funds out early? However, there would be no cost to the State. It would involve allowing early access to the tax free cash element of a pension scheme, which somebody can draw down at retirement anyway, if certain criteria are met. However, our proposal was ruled out of order so it is a discussion for another day.

With regard to the amendments before us, I understand the sentiment behind them, but the logic is a different kettle of fish. I do not believe any Minister for Social Protection can direct a pension scheme trustee to invest his or her money in any way, shape or form. However, there is something that can be considered in the future. Fianna Fáil proposed in its pre-budget submission to allow an option for pension schemes, be they Irish or international, to invest 5% of their funds in Irish infrastructural projects. We could set up an infrastructural fund. If that option was taken up, they could be relieved of the 0.6% pension fund levy. It might be a carrot and stick approach to encourage them to take that option. Infrastructural investment for pension schemes is something many pension funds across the world are seeking. It gives a good solid return. For projects such as metro north and metro west we must think outside the box as to how we can fund them.

I mention this because the Minister has done a great deal of work in the Department on the pensions area and how we might harness the more than €80 billion in pension funds. The State cannot utilise it. For that reason, while I understand the sentiments behind the amendments, I am surprised they are considered in order because under pensions legislation, the State cannot direct scheme trustees to invest funds in any area. If we legislated for that, there would be a flight of pension funds out of the country. It should also be remembered that many European and worldwide pension funds are managed and based in Ireland. I believe, therefore, that the amendments are ultra vires, although it is no harm to discuss them.

Can the Minister give an indication of the approximate timetable for bringing forward the pension legislation? We have done a great deal of work on the issue of early access to tax free cash. Will the Minister allow a consultation period on it, as we did with the Green Paper, whereby we could submit our ideas in this area? The infrastructural investment idea and allowing a way out of the private pension levy, which I have spoken about at length over the last few months, are positive areas we could examine which might gain the support of pension scheme trustees.