Feargal Quinn (Independent)

The scheme in the Netherlands is being operated on a trial basis by ten local authorities, including Amsterdam and the Hague. The aim is to stamp out fraudulent claims which in 2010 cost the Government there approximately €120 million. The councils are working with a specialist Amsterdam research firm, using the type of computer software previously deployed only in counter-terrorism. They monitor Internet traffic for key words and cross-reference those words with computerised lists of social welfare recipients. The giveaway terms are "holiday" and "new car" and if the software matches those terms and somebody claiming social welfare, the information is passed to investigators who gather substantive real evidence.

Money is being wasted because of social welfare fraud, although people do not want to talk about it or argue that it is a minor amount compared with other issues. It is substantial and steps could be taken to fight it. The Dutch system would point the authorities in the correct direction and ensure detection resources were used as effectively as possible. If people ask whether we can afford such a system, I would ask if we can afford not to do it. I would be interested in the Minister of State's thoughts on it.

The measures in this Bill may be perceived as harsh, and some of them are, but we must take a long-term view and learn from tried and tested examples of how to get people off social welfare. In general, the majority of those on social welfare would prefer to be working and I am sure the numbers of those who do not want to work and have no intention of doing so is minor. We should encourage people back to work. It has been interesting to listen to today's debate and hear that we tend to train people to be employees. As Senator Healy Eames noted, we should be encouraging entrepreneurs and people to become employers. In doing so, we can attempt to get people off social welfare by creating more jobs. I welcome this debate and the steps being taken, which are in the right direction. We should continue that work.