Denis Landy (Labour)

How satisfied is the Minister that what has been unearthed will not lead to further tribunals? If one remembers how all this started, it was when one individual was vexed by the comments of an arrogant politician. That can happen any day, in any place from now to eternity. How are we ever going to get to the bottom of this? Are we only just scratching at the surface?

Much play has been made regarding the provision of a regulator to deal with planning issues. I respectfully suggest that people who are elected, whether to a local council, the Seanad or Dáil, should be willing to serve for the betterment of their community and not their own pocket or those of party colleagues. They should not be elected to be in a clique. That is from where this issue stems, and there will never be a system that can ensure people are elected for the right reasons.

I support Senator Conway, who spoke about the need to see proper penalties. We have seen people proven guilty of corruption but we have yet to hear mention of someone being jailed. There are places across Europe where senior politicians were found to be corrupt, and those politicians, especially in Germany, for example, served time behind bars. That was a message to the public and those who believe in democracy and how it should operate. If the trust of the people is breached, not alone will a person not be re-elected, he or she will also face the rigours of the law. Until we bring that into legislation, we will not even begin to solve the problem.

The 2001 planning Bill was fine legislation but there were ten amendments to it within 24 months, most of them formulated in the Galway tent, which ensured the onus on completing housing estates was handed back to local authorities rather than builders. In simple terms, some pipes did not require to be covered by a metre of earth because that would need shuttering and more money to be paid out by builders in constructing houses. Instead, they only had to be covered by 18 in. of earth. That cost hundreds of millions of euro following the big freeze during 2010 and 2011. It came about because somebody suggested that a section of the legislation should be amended to ensure money could be saved in the building of houses. That was formulated by people in the clique.

I could go on but we must face the truth of what happened. I look forward to the Minister bringing legislation to this House to deal with these issues. The strong arm of the law should be implemented to ensure those in breach are dealt with meaningfully. That will send a message that we have a real democracy and people will pay if they try to corrupt it. We will never have a democracy worth talking about if that does not happen. I thank the Minister of State for attending and I look forward to him returning to the House soon with legislation dealing with these issues.