David Cullinane (Sinn Fein)

Here we go again with the interruptions. What is involved here will place a straitjacket on future Governments in the context of their being in a position to manage and control our budgetary and fiscal affairs. It is not possible to state that the treaty imposes very strict rules in respect of fiscal discipline and then state that it will not place future Governments in a straitjacket.

The Minister of State also referred to returning to the bond markets and he again peddled a particular view in respect of ESM funding. I have a number of direct questions for him on this matter. The Tánaiste, Deputy Gilmore, stated at the Labour Party conference that Ireland would return to the bond markets within two years. How will this be achieved? If it is achieved, I am sure the Minister of State will accept that we will not then require access to ESM funding. Does he also accept that the ESM treaty is different to that which is the subject of the Bill? Does he further accept that Ireland has a veto when it comes to the implementation of the ESM treaty? The Minister of State indicated that it would be very foolish for the Irish people to reject access to ESM funding. This is where the difficulty lies. We are being informed that we will not require such funding because we will be returning to the bond markets but at the back of people's minds is the fact that access to the ESM is a form of insurance policy.

The treaty to which the Bill relates is an intergovernmental treaty. A number of individuals, including the Minister of State, have said that we will not be out of the euro, the eurozone or the European Union if we vote "No". If we do vote that way we will, like Britain, simply be rejecting the fiscal discipline rules. It will still be open to other countries to proceed with the treaty if they so wish. However, the question arises with regard to whether the Dáil has a vote in the context of the approval of ESM funding. I understood the Taoiseach to have stated that said vote will be taken when the people have made their decision. My question for the Minister of State in this regard is very simple. If the people vote "No" in the referendum, will his party recommend that we should approve the ESM treaty and, essentially, prevent ourselves from accessing the funding involved? Will the Government do the sensible thing if there is a "No" vote and state that the people have spoken in respect of the fiscal discipline rules, that the position on ESM funding is different, that we have a choice and that we are saying "No" to what is proposed in respect of the ESM and that the rules can be changed in order that Ireland, if necessary, might obtain access to ESM funding?

I am of the view that the issue in this regard has been resolved. Before now, we would have been putting the cart before the horse by holding the referendum after we accepted the ESM funding. I hope a response in respect of this matter is written on the piece of paper that has just been handed to the Minister of State.