Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)

I tender my support for the treaty in the referendum. Despite current opinion poll results and trends, it is not certain that the referendum will be passed, even though I dearly hope it will because there is too much at stake for us as a people to reject it.

I endorse what my colleague, Senator Jim Walsh, said about the economic collapse that occurred here two or three years ago. We seemed to be at the forefront in that if our banking system had collapsed, other banks throughout Europe would have been in serious difficulty. Senator Jim Walsh has made a concise point that should be repeated, namely, that the ECB, in particular, and the German banks which lent the money cannot pretend it never happened. They were at fault to a certain extent, but this was the first country to face this calamity. As the late Brian Lenihan stated, going to the European Union was like being at the gates of hell and he was at the gates of hell from an economic point of view. It is important to note also the comments made by eminent individuals such as Senator Sean D. Barrett who stated that up to the time of the economic collapse - many people do not realise this - we were playing by the rules. However skewed or wrong they were, we played by the rules, but, unfortunately, we were trumped because of what had happened and the nation will suffer for many years to come as a result.

I am critical of the debate about whether we are in or out of the European Union. The reality is that we have been a member since 1973. By and large, the Union has served us well and remaining outside it or deciding to step in or out as the occasion might suit us is not good for it. I am not an economist or an expert in economic matters, but had these banking constraints and the straitjacket being suggested been in place four or five years ago we would not be in this difficult position.

From a constitutional point of view, we are facing a referendum on the Thirtieth Amendment of the Constitution Bill. It is a matter of history that, compared to Australia and America, we have had far more referendums since the Constitution took effect than any other country in the world. The time has come for the Taoiseach to refer or examine the necessity to hold a referendum on every move that happens in the European Union. I am not making a broad statement that we should never again hold a referendum on issues that affect the Union, but we should examine the process of holding referendums as far as our commitment to and our working within it is concerned. The time has come for us, as a nation, to consider amending the Constitution in respect of certain moves in the Union that trigger referendums which are costly for the county, apart from the effort involved in holding them. I am not sure how much holdindg this referendum will cost, but it will be many millions of euro to endorse a commitment that the vast majority of Members of the Oireachtas support. Whether it be 75% or 80%, if the vast majority of Members of the Dáil and Seanad decide a particular European treaty should be ratified, we should examine that concept. I am not sure the notion that every time something happens in the Union we must go to the people is correct. I am not ignoring the importance of the referendum and the right of the people to decide on certain issues, but we should consider a new structure. The Constitution took effect in 1937. It is interesting that it is referred to as de Valera's Constitution, but some of the key individuals in the background advising him were eminent Free State people or Blueshirts, as they were referred to in those days. They put the Constitution together in a different era. Eamon De Valera was Taoiseach and it is said it was his Constitution, that he was influenced by the Cardinals and so on, but some of the main strategists behind it were people from another party.

I had not intended to speak on this issue, but I am happy to add my aguisín in favour of the referendum. I say to the parties opposite and the Minister, for whom I have great respect, that this is an issue we cannot take for granted. There will have to be an all-out effort made because if we fail, those on this side of the House cannot be blamed. The onus is on the Government parties to ensure the referendum is passed. They will have to go out with all guns blazing because there is no certainty about what will be the outcome when the people cast their votes in five weeks time.