Thomas Byrne (Fianna Fail)

I thank the Minister for coming to the House and for his continued commitment to debating here. It is hoped this will be an interesting, engaging and honest discussion. I use the word "honest" in the context of our having been told at various points by the Labour Party, although not so much by the Minister, Deputy Howlin, that the IMF is forcing the sale of State assets. I note the Minister referred at least once in his speech to the IMF. I noticed that he dropped the IMF into his speech on one occasion. It is clear that Government policy is being implemented in this instance, with the agreement of the IMF. The decision to sell these assets is purely and totally an Irish one and we are debating it on that basis. We do not object to it. Over three years ago, I lobbied the former Minister, Brian Lenihan, to privatise the national lottery. A common feature of the economic crisis, particularly in states of the United States, has been that state lotteries have been among the first items to be sold off. It should have happened a few years ago in this country. The organisation of lottery games can be done more efficiently by the private sector.

The potential sale of State assets usually causes those on the ideological fringes of Irish politics to get very agitated. In general terms, my party has no objection in principle to the sale of State assets. We carried out all of the privatisations in this country over the last 25 years. Most of them were successful, although some of them were not. The sale of Eircom was successful in terms of getting money into the State coffers, which is the primary aim of the Government on this occasion. It was unsuccessful for those who lost out after they had bought shares and also in terms of the roll-out of broadband throughout the country. The development of competition in the telecommunications industry has been a wide-ranging success. I do not think every left-wing politician is signed up to Eircom's telephone services. They are probably getting cheaper deals from its various competitors. The increase in service levels in the telecommunications sector has been accompanied by dramatic price decreases. Any sale of State assets must be fully transparent. The opportunity cost of any sale must be fully understood as well. We must know what the potential losses are to the State, arising from the sale of an asset, so that we can weigh them against the cash realities that are associated with such a sale. That applies particularly in the case of Aer Lingus.

The findings of the Moriarty tribunal made it clear that when State contracts are not transparent, the whole process can be brought into disrepute. For that reason, I would like the regulation of lobbyists legislation to be enacted and passed before any of this takes place. We learned in the tribunal report that politicians are not the only people who are subjected to lobbying. I am sure public servants do not want to be lobbied, but it can happen. It is important for the legislation I have mentioned to be enacted to ensure the sale of assets is transparent and in the interests of the public good. We should never again allow Government Ministers of any party to have their decisions influenced by lobbying on the part of companies or individuals. Therefore, the Government must implement the legislation it has proposed. Fianna Fáil has already proposed a Bill, which was professionally drafted by our legal advisers. It is open to the Government to accept that Bill as well.

It is important to highlight that the Government is not being forced to sell any assets by the troika. This decision is being taken by Fine Gael and the Labour Party in government. The Minister for Finance, Deputy Noonan, confirmed this in the Dáil on 6 October 2011 in response to my colleague, Deputy Michael McGrath. I hope Government Deputies and Senators will accept this when they are questioned about these sales in the months and years to come. I emphasise that State assets provide considerable returns to the Irish State. In 2010, semi-State companies paid dividends totalling €129 million to the Exchequer. In addition, they employed thousands of people who contributed tax revenues into the Exchequer. I have noted the Minister's assurances with regard to the sale of Coillte. I had intended to refer to some of the concerns that have been raised in that respect. It is important to highlight that the Minister has not been definitive in relation to the sale of Coillte. He said that "a final decision on how best to release value from Coillte remains to be taken by the Government". I would not have thought the sale of trees would be a particularly radical gesture on the part of a forestry company, although it is important.

The issues have been set out by the Minister. I will not repeat them. He knows what they are. While I am pleased that the Minister acknowledged the concerns that exist, I remind him that the Labour Party manifesto stated that "Labour is opposed to short-termist privatisation of key state assets, such as Coillte or the energy networks". As I have said, we do not oppose the sale of State assets, in general terms, as long as it is transparent and in the best long-term interests of the taxpayer. The Coillte issue mainly arises because of links with certain people who are involved in other forestry companies and have gone into the media. I suspect that will be dealt with through the introduction of the regulation of lobbyists legislation and proper competitive tendering and sales. When I discussed this matter with Senator Barrett earlier today, he referred to beauty contests. As a solicitor, I was involved in a number of such contests in relation to the purchase of assets. I refer to the private sector rather than to the public sector. The beauty contest approach leads to subjective judgment and might not be the best way of getting returns for the taxpayer.

It should be possible to sell the retail elements of our semi-State bodies as long as the State retains strategic ownership of the transmission networks of the ESB and Bord Gáis. Energy security should be an absolute priority for us. In the build-up to the energy crisis in California that caused the collapse of Enron, the privatisation of the actual networks caused untold harm and led to substantial price increases for consumers in that state. The lure of short-term financial gain for the Exchequer should not be used as a reason to reduce the capacity of the State to protect its energy needs.

Fianna Fáil will support the sale of assets on a case-by-case basis. We will consider each proposal as it arises and decide whether to support it on that basis. The Minister commended the asset disposal programme to the Seanad. It is not possible to commend the programme because we do not know the full details of it. The last sentence of the Minister's speech was somewhat premature. We do not know the full details of it. I presume legislation will have to be passed when each sale is proposed. In each case, we will decide whether to commend the action and whether to support the legislation. Unlike other parties, Fianna Fáil does not have to change its previously stated position. Fianna Fáil is a pragmatic party. The private and public sectors have worked together over the years. People can be involved in private business and in public business. Something that is private can become public by being nationalised. The opposite can happen too. Most importantly, I urge the Government to introduce the regulation of lobbyists legislation before any further action is taken in this regard.