David Norris (Independent)

Well done. I thank the Minister for making that point.

One of the first people to chair the Competition Authority was Dr. John Fingleton, whom I knew from Trinity followed by William Prastifka. Dr. Fingleton indicated that advancing better practices cost about €4 billion a year, and that was in 2004. The point that this group makes, however undiplomaticly, is that it is very difficult to enforce competition legislation, unless the mechanism of enforcement is properly financed. The Irish Small Business Alliance suggests this does not happen, in other words, that the office of the Competition Authority is inadequately resourced. Will the Minister comment on that, unless he has already done so while I was engaged with people from the US? The director in the year 2000, Mr. Patrick Masterson, resigned saying he could no longer continue as director of competition enforcement due to the failure to provide adequate resources to enable him to do his job properly. The OECD report in April 2001 stated that strengthening competition law in institutions had been compromised by lack of resources, unclear independence and inconsistent leadership. Mr. Declan Purcell, the then Competition Authority chairman said in October 2010 the authority's ability to carry out its statutory and other functions "... is seriously and regrettably compromised ... I simply feel that some facts need to be recognised and acknowledged. With the current level of resources we have ... we are no longer in a position to investigate and assist the DPP ... We will be doing well if we can conclude one major investigation in the non-criminal enforcement ". I understand that at present only two detective Garda are seconded to assist them in this latter role.

On the introduction of civil fines, I have been briefed that the Minister is resistant and unyielding and has not given any reasons, but if I have understood his speech correctly, he has introduced them. The Minister quoted legal advice from the Attorney General that there would be a constitutional problem and as I understand it he has placed at least a section of the advice received from the Attorney General on the record. I know there is a tradition of not releasing information, but I ask that the broad outlines could be made clear to the Irish Small Business Alliance. I know it is related to the burden of proof. In other laws, there is the possibility of private prosecution, for example in acts of terrorism there has been a number of cases, for example the Omagh bombing, where it proved impossible to meet the test, the people who were brought before the courts failed, but then the people who could demonstrate injury could go before a civil court. I wonder if it is possible to resolve this situation and introduce some similar measure? It has happened in other areas as well where civil suits have been brought, following the collapse of a trial in the criminal court which requires a higher level of proof. Will the Minister consider this suggestion?

I hesitate to suggest that we encourage informers, who do not have a good reputation, but we are using them for income tax. How about a reward for those who reveal uncompetitive practices? Mr. George Stigler states that regulatory capture is endemic and many corporations regularly breach regulatory laws, confident that they will not be caught or if they are, the financial benefits derived from the breach will exceed the cost of the fines and so on. That shows the power of the major corporations as against the individual. I have always stood for the individual and there is no conflict between that and being a good businessman. If you do not believe me, look to my righthand side, this is Senator Feargal Quinn, who ran an extremely successful business on the basis that the customer is king.