Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)

I thank Senators for taking a keen interest in this legislation. I will try to answer some of their questions and reply to a number of comments.

The point of this legislation is to enable the Minister to put the list of procedures together. We are debating the legalities involved. The list can be changed, but there will be ongoing consultation with stakeholders in that regard. Whether it is equine dentistry, hoof paring or microchipping a horse or dog, we will consider the skill set required in a function to determine whether confining that function to a veterinary practitioner or veterinary nurse as opposed to an unlicensed or unregistered person is appropriate.

Senators mentioned the animal welfare Bill, on which my Department has worked hard for the past six months. I received it back from the Attorney General's office today and we should be in a position to publish it. It is approximately 120 pages long. I made significant additions to the draft Bill that was ready when I entered into government. I have strong opinions on animal welfare matters that need to be addressed in legislation. People will see that when the Bill is published. I look forward to a significant engagement with this House on the question of animal welfare. A number of Senators have a specific interest in this area.

We are still operating on the basis of animal welfare legislation that is approximately 80 years old. It is outdated. For example, we cannot comprehensively deal with organised dog fights, the mutilation of horses or donkeys in family feuds, etc. That all needs to end. We must put legislation in place that can allow the Garda to address these problems properly.

As the Senator probably knows, I have got to know my counterpart in the Northern Executive very well. I work with her on a series of matters from CAP to CFP and in particular on the cross-Border mechanisms available to us. We are working on a common approach to animal health and welfare, and in particular for practical reasons on disease control given that the spread of disease does not respect borders. We need to have a fortress Ireland approach to keeping out of Ireland diseases that can be prevented from coming here.

There are some risks at the moment because of the excitement about agriculture particularly owing to the pricing of beef and lamb. Young animals are being brought into Ireland from the UK in particular and from other parts of Europe as farmers try to get their hands of calves to build up their herd sizes. That causes a particularly difficult enforcement problem for us in ferry ports and so on given that there is the right to free movement of animals as well as the free movement of people around then European Union. For example, in the south and south west of Britain the cattle disease that is being spread by midges needs to be kept away from this island. That is a particular challenge and we need to do everything we can to enforce it.

I take this opportunity to get a message to vets generally. We have an ongoing discussion with vets at the moment over their supervisory role in meat factories. Vets perform a very important standard control role within factories. We are reviewing that role at the moment because it is my responsibility to get the best value for money we can. There is a perception among some vets that I am somehow trying to remove vets from factories, which is not the case. We have a panel of approximately 400 private vets whom we pay approximately €18 million for their inspection and active supervision role in factories, which is very important. We are trying to get better value for money for that service at the moment and we are talking to representatives of Veterinary Ireland. While it is taking time to get agreement, I encourage it to talk to us in a proactive way.

On indemnity insurance I was asked why there is a difference between a vet acting in a private capacity and a vet working for the Department. The reason is that when a vet is acting in a private capacity he or she is generally performing a service for a client, for example calving or dealing with a fallen animal in a field. If the vet makes a blunder from which the client has suffered financial loss and if there is a complaint resulting in a civil case, there needs to be indemnity to ensure that those debts can be paid. If a vet is acting in an official capacity it normally relates to inspection or supervision and is acting on behalf of somebody else. In those cases if there is a civil action it would normally be against the employer, which is the State or the Minister and there is no need for that vet to have legal indemnity. That is the difference between the two. Senators might like to look more closely at the legislation and we can return to it on Committee Stage if necessary.

A number of speakers made pointed reference to the role of vets in the modernisation of farming, which is true. For example, a few weeks ago in Kilkenny mart I launched a new initiative, which is costing us €5 million this year, to encourage beef farmers, particularly suckler beef farmers, to participate in what is called a discussion group structure whereby they would challenge each other and be exposed to new, better and more profitable ways of running their business. They would be required to take on new practices, some involving vets working with farmers to help put better commercial and animal husbandry practices in place. They would consider matters such as stocking rates, disease control, fertility and a range of other practical measures to allow farmers become more efficient in what they do and get more from their animals and from their herds.

That is the kind of proactive role from which vets can not only make a living but can also make a significant contribution to raising the overall standard of agriculture and particularly beef farming where there is a chasm between the beef farmers who do a particularly good commercial job in getting a return from the market from their herds and those who do not. I could bore the Senators for many hours with the figures on that because I am fascinated by it. I have responsibility to try to close that gap and move everybody in a more efficient direction, which we will do in time.