Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)

Senator Daly raises a reasonable point about the extent of legislation that goes through the House by way of statutory instrument as compared to primary legislation. I did not know, to be honest, that the ratio was 75:25, but if the Senator says that is the case, I accept it. In fairness, the Office of the Attorney General and the Parliamentary Counsel keep a close eye on what a Minister can get away with in a statutory instrument, as compared to primary legislation. It must conform to certain rigorous standards. I am not trying to duck primary legislation, because we are dealing with the Bill. I am raising the wisdom of trying to dictate to the market the type of measures that can be supported. It would be unwise to be so prescriptive. It is simply not wise to set out certain things in primary legislation, but better to leave it to the particular terms of the scheme. It is not fair to say that the public gets access to statutory instruments at the same time as Members of the House. When a statutory instrument is made, it is laid before both Houses of the Oireachtas and there is a period of 21 days in which it can be annulled. It is open to every Member who feels that strongly about it to move a motion to have it annulled. It is not something that goes through sight unseen, or that should go through sight unseen. It is a fairly arcane process to stay up at night with a wad of statutory instruments for bedtime reading, which I accept, but there is a requirement that it can be annulled within 21 days.

Senator Barrett raises a bigger question on energy efficiency and whether the measures in place to facilitate thermal efficiency are economic. The current better energy scheme is a grants based scheme, but as I have said before we are on a glide path to a pay as you save scheme. What is being proposed is a new financial model in conjunction with the banks on the one hand and the energy supply companies. We have put an enormous level of work into this project. I have met the chief executives of the two banks and my officials have been dealing with the people appointed by them to work on the detail. The energy companies are on board. The idea is that one would pay for the renovations or refurbishment from the savings that accrue from the gains made. If we can put that model together, it will be very worthwhile. It sounds easier said than done. There are difficulties, such as the period of repayments and so on, but we must make the scheme attractive to the householder so that he or she is likely to want to avail of it.

What confronts us now is that we import more than 90% of our energy. The price is set elsewhere. There is very little that we can do about it. Perhaps we can do something in limited areas such as transport, if we were to tackle the issue of excise duty. The rise one sees in the forecourt price, is to some extent contributed to by the tax take. Generally, we have little enough control over the market price. We have been taking steps to improve energy security but in terms of what we can do about cost, the best we can do is to bring down consumption. There is no doubt but that energy efficiency measures are proven in that regard. We waste energy. Our built environment is not very efficient. Even during the boom years, the standards in our domestic residences were not up to par. The invigilation of standards was not adequate. There is no doubt that as a result, energy is being wasted. Energy is also being wasted in our public buildings. I imagine that the splendid room in which we meet, which is part of an old house, is woefully inefficient. There are opportunities for a win-win in this area. Not only would these works save energy and reduce consumption, but they would also create employment. We are developing some expertise in that regard. In response to Senator Barrett's question, I will say I hope we will be able to move out of a grants-based approach. I think demand has been built up. There is a greater awareness that pulling the curtains, which may be advisable for reasons of thermal efficiency or simple concealment, is not adequate in itself. We need to do more than that. The Sustainable Energy Authority of Ireland returns to do random checks on homes that have been refurbished. There is no doubt that the evidence it has garnered shows significant reductions in one's energy bill.