Sean Barrett (Independent)

We have to make vital decisions and we should have access to complete reports. I hope the Minister of State can use his influence with the Department of Health and others to ensure elected representatives have the full information. The word "redaction" should be removed from our vocabulary.

My other fear is that the reforms slated for the Department and local authorities in the McLoughlin report could be put to one side because the Government is too busy investing new forms of taxation such as the septic tank and water taxes and the household and site charges. The report found that there was a surplus of ten county managers, 50 directors of services, 220 corporate staff, 225 senior and middle management, 62 human resources, 1,000 staff in Dublin and Cork city councils, 180 professional, senior and middle management, 250 in roads sections and 171 in planning departments. Mr. Owen Keegan, county manager of Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown local authority, estimates that there are 1,800 surplus staff. Both Mr. McLoughlin and Mr. Keegan presented papers on this in Kenmare, County Kerry, the year before last. That problem has to be tackled.

Mr. Keegan also stated on "Morning Ireland" the week before last that he found the Croke Park agreement an impediment to his attempt to meet the targets in the McLoughlin report. While the total number of local authority staff is 4,200 now, I do not know what the number should be and how many of the surplus posts relate to water services. As Senator Landy said, many other local authority functions have been transferred elsewhere. However, we need to examine the cost base of local authorities to make sure that the efficiencies that should have been generated since the report was published are being generated. It has been reported that the two local authorities in County Tipperary will be amalgamated, as will the both councils in County Limerick but is that radical enough?

I agree with previous speakers who are worried that Irish Water will be another quango. Both Government parties committed in their election manifestos to reducing the number of quangos. Can the new body be staffed from the slimmed down local authority workforce, which, as other Senators said, has the expertise in this area? We do not want a break in concentration away from the McLoughlin agenda where a new quango is set up with an expanded public relations department, thereby creating other problems. The expertise that is available should be used while slimming down the local authority structure.

The new body should have no budget and it should finance itself from the savings identified in the McLoughlin report, which are required from local government. Perhaps, even a dividend to the Department could be generated to be used for other purposes. I would not like the Seanad to wave a green flag regarding another quango, which could go out of control with large public relations and human resources departments duplicating what is in place in local authorities. The number of staff in the HSE doubled between the previous recession in the 1980s from 55,000 to 110,000 at peak in the late 2000s. We are experiencing how difficult it is to reduce the numbers to the previous level and it is difficult to recognise improvements in services in many cases.

I would like the Minister of State to make sure that not many of his staff are devoted to finding new forms of taxation because that aspect of the IMF agreement has not received sufficient attention. Current expenditure between now and 2015 will be approximately the same but provision is made for an additional €10 billion in taxation, including the various charges that will be applied by the Department. The emphasis should have been on why this is needed because that will create problems in reviving the productive capacity of the economy. Water has a significant role to contribute and I hope the Minister of State will first examine the local authorities which, according to the McLoughlin report, manage to lose up to 50% of the water they are supposed to supply. That is unacceptable and charging people to drink water or to have a bath when 50% of the supply never gets to the house would be a misapplication of resources and I ask the Minister of State to apply his energies to correcting that.