David Norris (Independent)

If obligations are imposed upon us from outside and by institutions outside of the State, without the democratic consent of the people, and we are left paying the bills of other people, we should certainly negotiate. I think what Senator Quinn's father was suggesting was that while one should pay one's bill, one should not pay everything that is demanded by a bully. Rather, one should negotiate, and there appears to be the possibility of doing that with this excellent Bill.

Senator Barrett is a distinguished academic and the memorandum was most helpful. The definitions were also helpful, with the exception of a few words, such as "exogenous". Because of my smattering of Greek, I worked out this meant shocks "that occur from outside our control", and he confirmed that. I suggest we should keep the language as simple as possible so that the explanatory memorandum does not need to be explained to a reasonably intelligent colleague. That would be helpful. However, I did understand it, by intuition.

The idea of accountability and preparation for the rainy day is very important, as I said on many occasions during the boom. I am glad, for example, that the Government of the day did put some money aside, into the NTMA and the National Pensions Reserve Fund. I applauded that and asked for more of that because I thought it was good. When the NAMA legislation was introduced in this House, we met into the early hours of the morning. There are some survivors of those early morning meetings here today. Not many people stayed throughout the night, but I did. I remember being here at 3 a.m. and succeeding, with former Senator Joe O'Toole, in having six amendments included in the NAMA legislation requiring parliamentary accountability. I am proud of that, even though it has never been recognised. Seanad Éireann did a good night's work that night, but this has not been recorded anywhere. That night's work is an argument for the survival of the Seanad.

This is a short and clear Bill. Clarity and conciseness are excellent qualities in a Bill and I hope most of this Bill will survive this examination and that the Minister of State will give a commitment to the House that the essence of the Bill will be preserved. For me, the most significant section is section 2, which states the budget shall set forth the indebtedness and continued liabilities of the State, proposed expenditure as appropriations shall not exceed funds, and estimated Revenue receipts will be available for the fiscal year as shown in the budget without triggering a fiscal responsibility statement by the Minister for Finance and the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform. This is crucial and is what we want.

Senator Quinn, as always, was generous and gentlemanly when saying the Department of Finance does not always get the Estimates right. I would be grateful for an indication of an occasion on which it got them right. I do not recall one, certainly not in recent years. I have watched this over the years. I know producing the Estimates is difficult. It is an art rather than a science, but the Department has often been very wide of the mark. Perhaps this is due to exogenous shocks.