Susan O'Keeffe (Labour)

I thank the Minister for coming to the House. I also echo the words of my fellow Senators in commending the Minister's capacity to keep the cuts to a minimum, albeit that, as she and others have noted, no one wants to cut. In this regard, she was the Minister who was to be damned in this budget because whatever she did and wherever she went to find the money, there would be a queue of criticism and, inevitably, it is difficult to find a way around that. I welcome that there will be a review of the disability cuts and of the community enterprise scheme, which has enormous value but can always be improved on and always can be targeted better to achieve more. However, I reiterate it has enormous value in communities and like most of my fellow Senators, I have met and talked to people on community enterprise schemes and to those who run them and I know their value, particularly to individuals. Consequently, it is important that the scheme be strengthened and retained.

I understand the Government has managed to keep the cuts to just 2% and that in a period of austerity, it is difficult to find places in which to cut. However, as we move into 2012, which will also be encompassed by the austerity programme, the Minister should indicate that consideration will again be given to placing a cap on higher salaries in the public sector and in political life and to cutting some of the tax reliefs that are still of great benefit to those who earn the most. In addition, the use of consultants and advisers and how much they are paid should be examined. These people are often introduced into public life for short periods on maximum pay and there is scope for payment across all Departments in the use of consultants and personal advisers.

I believe the area on which the Department of Social Protection must really concentrate in respect of reform is the use of technology or the lack thereof. The Minister has mentioned this in the past. For example, I refer to the targeting of back-to-school payments, fuel payments or child benefit payments at those who specifically need them and to finding a way to use smart technology in the 21st century to ensure that money given to someone goes to the purpose for which it was intended. While the Minister is keen on such goals, there inevitably will be a lag as she tries to find both the means and the way to introduce the correct technology to achieve these aims. Yesterday, I met third-year BA students in child care and social policy in the Institute of Technology, Sligo, who were holding an exhibition and one of the teams there had developed a project on smart cards for child benefit. In the past, we had no choice but to give sums of money to people because the technology to do otherwise was not available. However, the idea that we would carry on doing this in the 21st century appears to be utterly absurd. This must be one of the most important reforms, which would then allow the Minister to begin the other area of reform relating to targeting and to bringing the payments towards a one-payment system. However, the Minister's hands are tied by the technology until this can be achieved. I would like to believe Members will see evidence of such changes coming through within the next year.

If we are prepared as a society, as we currently are, to give €20.5 billion of our total budget to social welfare payments in the next year, perhaps when there is discussion on where cuts should be made, there should be a wider debate on whether that is a fair proportion or whether it should be more. If it is more, this debate should take place earlier, rather than waiting for the budget when, as I stated earlier, everyone lines up to damn the Minister for whatever she did. If people wish to ensure that those in the community who are in most need of support have such support, this debate should be had now. People should state they seek a social welfare budget of €21 billion or €22 billion and that they want to be part of that debate, instead of queueing up to damn with negativity and too late, thereby leaving everyone in confusion. The energy spent at this end of the argument would be much better spent at the creative end, which pertains to discussing how much of the budget, that is, how much taxpayers' money one wishes to give in support of one's friends, neighbours and families in society. If it is going to be more than €20.5 billion next year, let us have that conversation.