Terry Brennan (Fine Gael)

I, too, welcome the Minister to the House.

I believe, and my view is that a large percentage of the wider population also believes, if we were to hold a referendum, that the law of this country favours the criminal and the persistent burglar who has burgled 20, 30 or 40 times and is caught on the 45th occasion. That is the law as it stands.

Not long ago I spoke to a young man who was attacked on O'Connell Street in Dublin - the capital city. At 9 p.m., he and his girlfriend were standing, waiting for a bus outside Clery's on O'Connell Street to go home to his apartment. He saw five or six guys coming up the street and passed no heed to them whatsoever. He and his girlfriend, and three or four others who were also waiting for the bus, were knocked to the ground. He gathered himself up, looked around him and counted to ten. There was no gun or knife. He told me that within ten seconds, if one stands up to them, a gun or a knife will appear. This young man did not care whether 25 of them attacked them. It is a good story, but my point is that from 5 o'clock that same Friday evening, those same five guys had attacked different individuals in the centre of the city.

The man involved was due to emigrate to the United States two or three days later. He saw the gardaí, who came fairly quickly. He did not know what to do - his girlfriend was crying and he was half-crying. He was worried that he was not going to be allowed to go to the United States, but gardaí had been looking for these guys since 5 o'clock and they did not get them. They told him to hop on the next bus. They did not even take his name. It is a success story where common sense was used, but I often wonder what would have been the position if he had used unreasonable force. That is one of the issues I have. What and when does one use reasonable force? If an individual breaks into one's home and one catches him leaving the sitting-room with one's television, does one open the front door, let him go and then ring the Garda? Alternatively, does one apprehend him in one's home. The thinking is so vague. What does one do in the circumstances? I know what I would do. If I did so, I would have to justify my use of reasonable force to the courts. If a burglar approached one with a gun and he accidentally shot himself as one tried to take it off him, who would be to blame? The home owner would have to go through the court system to demonstrate that he used reasonable force.

As with previous speakers, I commend those involved with Community Alert on what they have been doing. My area is to lose a Garda station and patrol car. Any time I stay in Dublin, my wife stays with my daughter because she is afraid in her own home. There is, therefore, something radically wrong.

Somebody mentioned the stalking of locations by locals to facilitate others in the commission of crimes. There is no doubt this is happening. The keys of my car were stolen approximately three months ago. I was lucky enough to have my mobile phone number written on them. I received a telephone call at 8 a.m. on a Monday and noted the caller was trying to find out my identity. I recognised the caller's voice when I succeeded in talking to him. When I put it to him that he had rung me at 8.10 a.m., he denied it. He was trying to find out who owned the car keys and the house keys. Six burglaries took place within half a mile of the home of the individual. This was too much of a coincidence. It will take a lot to prove the man had a part to play. If he did not carry out the burglaries, he directed others to do so. Locals tell others when certain individuals are working, away overnight, or at church on Sunday. It is local people who are encouraging these burglaries and robberies.

This Bill is a step in the right direction. Perhaps it is not stiff enough for a fellow such as myself who has suffered from burglaries and attacks.