Feargal Quinn (Independent)

I welcome the Minister of State. We did not get much notice of this Bill and, as Senator Keane said, we had to burn the midnight oil to get some details on it. There is little doubt that all new taxes are unwelcome and hard to stomach, especially when it is a tax that affects so many people. However, we are probably in need of more tax revenue to pay our expenses and we are one of a few countries, if not the only one, that does not have some form of tax on property. Its introduction is understandable.

I welcome that the Minister is giving people a chance to pay the charge with instalments of €25 per month rather than in one amount at the beginning of the year. I do not agree with Senator Ó Domhnaill that it should be paid in monthly instalments, rather than four instalments of €25. However, there should be an incentive for those who pay at the beginning of the year. It would be in the Government's interest to do that, whether it is an incentive or a disincentive for those who pay by instalments.

The Bill is being put through this House while all eyes are on the Budget Statement. Perhaps that is the reason we were given such short notice. The charge will quickly rise once the Minister finalises the long-term charges based on the value of a property. Clearly, the charge must be based on the value of the property in the long term. Could the Minister give a rough estimate of what the charge is likely to be in future? Take the example of a three-bedroomed semi-detached house in north Dublin worth €200,000. What is the average household charge likely to be when it is introduced? It will probably be 2015 before the scheme will be fully in place. Will the charge be €200, €300, €400 or €500 per year? I am sure the Minister of State will be unable to give me an exact sum but it is likely that the Government has an estimate of what it could be.

Many people are sceptical about this charge. They argue that they already signed an agreement for services, such as sewerage or water, with a county council when they originally got planning permission for the house. However, the situation has changed beyond recognition and we will have to pay. I am worried about some of the older people in our society who might be asset rich, but cash poor. They might have had their house for generations and own their home but they rely on State pensions. They might not be able to afford to pay this charge. The €100 in the first year is probably manageable but if it increases, they might not be able to pay it. I am not sure the Government has thought that aspect through fully.

The Minister has indicated that the money raised will go into the local government fund and will be allocated to local authorities to pay for the provision of services such as fire and emergency services, street maintenance, public parks, waste management, libraries and leisure facilities. However, South Dublin County Council is proposing to introduce domestic fire service charges next year. I hope I have the figures correct but it proposes a first hour rate fee of €500 for call outs to domestic fires, €610 for vehicle fires and €610 to attend a chimney fire. There is also a proposed first hour fee of €610 for road traffic incidents. I can understand it proposing those charges if the service costs that amount, but how does the household charge fit in if people will be subject to these charges?

Nine or ten years ago I woke up in my house at 2 a.m. to hear a crackling sound. The house next door to mine had gone on fire. It was uninhabited at the time. I telephoned the fire brigade and the gardaí. The fire brigade arrived and saved the house. In fact, the tree in the neighbouring garden was touching the tree in our garden, so the fire could easily have spread. It was August, there was no wind and I was frightened for my house. The other house was burnt out. Who pays the fine in that situation? The owner of the house was not there and I made the telephone call. Would I or the owner of the house be obliged to pay the charge? What are the Minister of State's thoughts on that? I do not know how often something like that tends to happen, but is there a danger that charges for calling out a fire brigade will deter people from calling it, particularly if the fire is not in their house?

There is also the related issue of water charges. Recently the EU has been putting pressure on Ireland to recover the full cost of water provision, and just last month Ireland was the sixth member state threatened with legal action on water charging. If Ireland fails to reply within two months, the Commission may refer the matter to the European Court of Justice. Some people, including the economist Dr. Richard Tol, suggest that this could mean a charge of €500 per year per household. This charge pales into insignificance when one considers that cost. I am worried about those who say they will boycott the levy. They must be properly informed that this could cost them another €10 per month surcharge and put them under further debt strain, even to the point of being pursued by debt collection agencies. Some residents who tried to avoid waste charges in Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown ran up bills of more than €1,000 in avoiding those charges. Home owners must be realistic.

I do not disagree with the need for a property charge, but I disagree with a flat charge. I know why the Minister is introducing it at this stage and acknowledge the intention that it will be related to the value of the property in the future. If ours is one of the few countries that does not have a property tax, we will have to introduce it. Furthermore, it is a way of funding local government. I do not disagree with the introduction of the legislation, but there are some issues with it which have been raised by both sides of the House. The Minister would do well not to rush this legislation through the House although I realise he is anxious to have this introduced before 1 January next.