Paschal Mooney (Fianna Fail)

Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire. I welcome the Minister to the House and thank her for her comprehensive review of the current state of her Department and of her various initiatives. I also thank her for the clarity she has brought to a number of initiatives, especially the one that is now proving the most controversial in regard to employers' obligations to provide sickness cover.

To put all of this in context, this side of the House has been regularly accused of all sorts of nefarious activities. One area where I feel this criticism is somewhat misplaced is that Fianna Fáil tripled expenditure on social welfare from 2000 to 2010, when resources were available. We continue, as a party, to emphasise the need for a safety net for the most vulnerable in society and those affected by the economic crisis across Europe.

It is worth making the point that the troika, in the commitments the Government has entered into, has made it clear repeatedly that it is a matter for the Government itself to take individual initiatives so long as they comply with the overall budgetary requirements. This is why it is important to put on the record that the continuing criticism of Fianna Fáil in this area is becoming a little tired, because it is now becoming apparent that the Government will have to finally take ownership of the budget and the Exchequer, and, as a result, it is now finding the reality of Government is beginning to set in after a very long honeymoon period.

I take some umbrage at a quote outlined by my colleague, Deputy Barry Cowen, in the other House during a debate on a motion earlier this month, a quote the Minister had made at the MacGill summer school in Donegal that Fianna Fáil was cynical in increasing benefits and rates for electoral gain. That is quite extraordinary when one considers the joint manifestos of both Fine Gael and Labour, which were not at all shy in putting forward their own proposals to improve social welfare rates.

Having said that, there are a number of issues I wish to deal with in the time available to me. In light of the comments that have been made, it is a pity the Minister cut the fuel allowance, the electricity allowance and the gas allowance for the elderly. One can only imagine the deprivation that will impact on the most vulnerable in society coming into the winter and early spring.

The Minister stated in her contribution that the replacement rate or the proportion of their former wages that unemployed people receive in benefits has increased in the case of some recipients to levels where it may discourage them from seeking work. I would be grateful if the Minister could outline what she plans to do in this regard. The figures pop up every so often in the tabloid press, although I believe most of the press in Ireland is now becoming tabloid. How can the Minister implement measures that will encourage people to seek work when there are very generous benefits?

There was definitely an environment over that ten-year period in which all political parties, both in Government and outside, took the view that while we had the resources, we should look after the vulnerable. The former Minister, Deputy Ó Cuív conceded much the same and even this Government will agree it, too, has a commitment to ensuring the vulnerable are protected. As a result and despite or in spite of what I said earlier about Fianna Fáil's record in this regard, I would put my hands up and state in a personal capacity that I consider we spent too much and raised the level of expectation too high. One statistic relating to this is that from 2003 to 2009, the social welfare increases were of the order of 300% at a time when inflation was only 19%. If there is any lesson to be learned in the hope that we do get out of this, it is that future Governments will not be tempted, because they may have the resources, of going down the road of perhaps over-egging the pudding in that regard.

As the Minister knows, there is another school of thought that would argue it was right and proper that the more vulnerable in our society would have been looked after and that when we had the resources, we would have paid it. In addition, there is no doubt that the level of poverty overall reduced during that period, as even Fr. Seán Healy would concede. I would be anxious that the Minister would elaborate on how she is going to square this circle. While the Minister might correct me if I am wrong, I understand a married couple with two children, because of the available benefits and depending on their own individual circumstances, would be entitled to something of the order of €38,000 per year in State benefits, which comes very close to the average industrial wage. If any of us were in that situation and perhaps did not have the inclination to seek work, human nature being what it is, would we bother?

I am particularly pleased that the FÁS employment and community services will formally join the Department on 1 January and that detailed preparations are under way to ensure the deadline is met. This brings me back to a debate we had earlier today with the Minister of State, Deputy Jan O'Sullivan, who outlined a number of initiatives in the area of trade. One of the points that struck me was in terms of the joined-up thinking between Departments in the context of trying to provide more job opportunities. Will the Minister have a role in the following specific area? She referred to attending a dinner in the Irish Embassy in London in early October when representatives of 52 Irish construction companies were present. As she knows, because of the momentum created by the Olympic Games coming to London, a significant number of Irish construction companies are providing a significant amount of employment. Sadly, in one sense, but perhaps positively in another, an increasing number of those who worked in the construction industry here, now that it has collapsed, have managed to find work in London.

Before people go down the road of saying I am encouraging emigration, I would subscribe to a view that is becoming increasingly more apparent. There was a very fine article in The Irish Times about this a couple of months ago where the writer took Mr. Colm Tóibín to task for making a comment at the global economic forum in Farmleigh that emigration was "a tragedy". Involuntary emigration is a tragedy; there is no question about that. I was an emigrant; I had to leave. However, voluntary emigration is different. My own daughter, who is 23 years of age, left with a masters degree. She would not have been able to get work here but she and a number of friends said they wanted to travel for at least one to two years to gain experience, and they want to come back. They are not, in my sense, of the traditional emigrant pattern.

It is sad I do not have the time to develop other issues but this is one on which I wanted to focus. I suggest there are young people in this country who perhaps, for whatever reason, do not have the capacity to look for work or who may not know where to go. Will the Minister consider having a discussion with her colleague, the Minister of State, Deputy Jan O'Sullivan, and the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade in the context of the Minister and the Department of Social Protection taking over FÁS and the employment and community services, given she has referred to the fact it will be setting up a service for people to establish benefits, look for a job and seek advice on their training options? Perhaps the Minister might consider integrating with British companies? One can get to London faster than one can get to Leitrim. If people on the Minister's radar are looking for job opportunities, perhaps her Department might join with our embassies, since work is available.

There is also work in Ireland for high-end graduates and those with specific skills. This is evident from websites such as irishjobs.ie and so on. We are importing people. While there was an outflow of 42,000 people last year, 25,000 people came to Ireland. The Minister will empathise with the points I have raised, as she is focused on trying to get more people into work.

I regret that I do not have more time and I am grateful to the Leas-Chathaoirleach for indulging me, but I will take just 20 seconds further. According to Spotlight: Tackling Social Welfare Fraud, research "suggests that the benefits system needs to change to accommodate more flexible employment patterns and ease the transition for people in temporary jobs to come on and off benefits". The Minister seems to have expressed this sentiment. What are her opinions in this regard?