Ivana Bacik (Independent)

It is very difficult to legislate in respect of such situations.

I am also concerned that paternalistic laws of the sort we have had in the past have not had the effect of reducing consumption, lessening the harm caused to people or bringing down the level of abuse. People have tended to binge drink because they see closing time as being imminent. Restricting opening hours can sometimes have a counterproductive effect. Again, we must examine the evidence in this regard.

I fully concur with Senator Gilroy that it is unusual for either of us to be in agreement with the former Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Mr. Michael McDowell, whose idea in respect of café bars represented a genuine attempt to try to change the culture that obtains here. We do not have a very good history in the context of making pubs welcoming to families, children and people who want to have a meal and a glass of wine. If we are concerned with culture change, we must promote the responsible use of alcohol. We must consider how we might encourage people to take social drinks, in moderation and usually with food, rather than to engage in binge drinking as has been the case heretofore.

The final matter to which I refer has not had much of an airing during this debate. However, it was raised at the "Alcohol - Where's the Harm?" conference which the Minister of State opened yesterday and at which Alcohol Action Ireland - which sponsored the conference - presented research relating to people's experiences in respect of alcohol. What struck me as I listened to what was said at the conference is the number of people who have gone out of their way to avoid drunken individuals or places which those who drink are known to frequent. People's behaviour in taking public transport is changed by their fear of alcohol. A large proportion of individuals or their families have experienced assaults in public spaces as a result of alcohol abuse by others.

There is a need to factor in planning and spatial strategies when considering the matter of controlling or curbing alcohol abuse. Dublin City Council is examining a spatial strategy to encourage families to visit city centre spaces to ensure that they will not become no-go areas as a result of the public consumption of alcohol by certain individuals. Events such as the St. Patrick's Day Festival have become associated with drink fuelled aggression and this is a matter which must be tackled in different ways.

We need a culture change. However, we must also examine the position with regard to the law on off-licences. For a long period, the focus has been on controlling on-licence premises. There is also a need to consider what happens in respect of the off-licence trade.