Sean Barrett (Independent)

I welcome the Minister of State to the House and the contributions of other Senators. I have some concerns about the motion. I was particularly interested in what Senator Gilroy stated. This is an area where lobby groups have an inordinate influence and nothing that I say has anything to do with lobby groups. I believe lobby groups should be compulsorily registered with the Cathaoirleach and the Ceann Comhairle. I am concerned about the way the debate has proceeded. We did not receive any numbers from the drinks industry. We received information from the OECD yesterday which states that in 2001 alcohol consumption in Ireland was 14.4 units and in 2009 it had reduced to 11.3 units. It is, therefore, 27% lower than it was, which corresponds to my experience. Credit is due to the former Ministers Noel Dempsey and Martin Cullen, as well as the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, Deputy Leo Varadkar, for the reduced number of road deaths. There used to be over 600 annually, but this year the number will be approximately 170. I have seen empty pubs, and others are shutting down. Senator Colm Burke mentioned what was happening in the vicinity of UCC and the same applies to TCD. Café society is gaining; when offices shut down, they tend to reopened as cafés or fast-food outlets. If this presents a problem, we should have the up-to-date data. If we were to receive incorrect data from the OECD, we would be delighted to change them. In recent years, however, the figures have come down, probably because of the recession. There has also been a change in culture. As Government Senators mentioned, drink driving is utterly unacceptable to the present generation, for which I admire it hugely.

According to the Central Statistics Office, the share of income we spend on drink is less than 3%. The reduction in price since 2005 is about 3%, which is less than the reduction in prices in the economy as a whole because there is a recession. If one did not cut the price, one would not be able to sell the stuff. I wonder if concerns about a large decline in drink prices, leading to a massive increase in consumption, are borne out by the figures in recent years. Ireland has changed dramatically, particularly in the case of the young, with whom it is my privilege to work and teach.

The other point referred to in the motion concerns the relationship between youth crime and drink. About 20% of the 4,000 crimes committed by juveniles this year have been drink related, according to the Garda Commissioner's report. There are, therefore, over 600,000 young people not involved in such activity. We have real problems in banking, the provision of public services and with the public finances. Unless we find the aforementioned statistics to be solidly based, a lot of national energy could be wasted on this matter.

A minimum price for alcohol would enrich the suppliers, which I presume is not our intention. It certainly is not mine. Low prices are what we normally seek and I wish bodies in the energy sector were as good at lowering prices. "Below-cost selling" is a legal term, for which the Competition Authority has responsibility. I gather it is extremely difficult to prove and I am not so sure it has been. There was below-cost selling by banks and we had to bail them out, but the drink companies which we believe are engaged in below-cost selling are still solvent and profitable.

We have a belief, based on outdated numbers, that there is excessive alcohol consumption in Ireland. However, the OECD estimates show the level is down by 27%. It does not account for a major proportion of the household budget. Many other items are increasing in price, an issue I had hoped the House would address. Of course, very cheap alcohol can be damaging to individuals, but is the sale of drink in a corner shop, filling station or supermarket any more damaging than the sale of alcohol in pubs?

Well over 100 years ago we persuaded the British Government that Ireland had a massive alcohol problem and the way to deal with it was to restrict the number of pub licences. It did not make us any more sober, but it certainly made publicans far richer. One must, therefore, be aware of false routes that we are invited to take.

I have heard references to the position in Canada, Scotland and Northern Ireland - I have lived in all three - but I do not know why we chose these countries as role models. Why not look at Italy and France as countries in which alcohol is consumed without dire consequences? If there is co-operation with Northern Ireland, we will, undoubtedly, transfer the business back across the Border again, as happened before.

A final thought concerns net receipts from excise duties between 2003 and 2009. In that period receipts to the Minister for Finance from the sale of beer were down by €51 million; from cider, €3 million and from spirits, €41 million. Therefore, in these three categories the yield from excise duties was €95 million less. Meanwhile, wine sales yielded an extra €75 million, a trend we have all noted. The euro was worth far less in 2009 than in 2003, but on that basis, there was about €20 million less coming in to the Exchequer in excise duties in that period.

I would support the aims of those who tabled the motion if I could be persuaded that the level of alcohol consumption was still rising, which it is not. We are told this is being caused by low prices, which do not show up in the consumer price index. In addition, we are being told it is absorbing vast amounts of income, which is also not shown in the CSO data. Are we blaming the commodity or do we have a problem in health and social services which we need to correct? We need up-to-date data to discover what exactly has been happening since the start of the recession. Young people's attitudes have changed; those of drivers have certainly changed. They have moved away from pubs. Is it damaging if people bring a drink home rather than having it in the pub? I would prefer them to have it at home because they pose less of a danger to society there. Let us not condemn everything that has happened in recent times.

I apologise to the Minister of State for overrunning on time.