Labhrás Ó Murchú (Fianna Fail)

This is why we are in the House. Perhaps this can be examined at a future date because it is difficult to discuss the community and voluntary sector if some grouping in the House does not have the opportunity to put forward its views.

The Minister has stated clearly that he is focused on decision making and ensuring that the local community will, hopefully, have an enhanced role when it comes to this issue. There have been many changes in the past as part of which we have endeavoured to bring the local community into greater cohesion with the statutory bodies. The experience most of us have had in this regard is that where there is a partnership between the community and the local authority and where money is spent, there is a better return rather than when the local authority alone is charged with spending the money. This is the case for several reasons. First, local community organisations have a track record and a focus. They have particular aims and objects. They are at the coalface and they are in touch with the community all the time. Often they are able to bring on board a large degree of volunteerism.

In no way does it surprises me that 2011 has been designated as the year of volunteerism. I drew up a paper on this issue and presented it to the Department because I believe it is important to examine precisely what we mean by volunteerism. The experience many of us have had is that people who are given the opportunity and the structures to come forward with their own talents, time, services and so on are perfectly prepared to do so. Multifaceted organisations and large numbers of other organisations are involved.

Previously, I have remarked that in my home town of Cashel there is a population of 3,000 people but there are 37 community organisations operating at the moment. These organisations cover a wide spectrum of activity, including sports, culture and art. However, there are also bodies providing meals on wheels and others that provide a particular service to the people. I have always believed that if one removed these organisations from the town - it holds true for everywhere else - we would have an impoverished town indeed.

I recall years ago when county managers tended to stay somewhat aloof from the local community. In many ways this strangled the possibility and the potential. However, in the past quarter of a century or more I have seen cases where county managers have opened their doors and engaged with local organisations. Often this has taken place in cases not involving monetary issues but they have been able to provide advice or direct an organisation in a certain way. Therefore, the organisation finds that it has become part of an inclusive operation.

At the moment there is debate and discussion on whether town councils should continue. I have a view on the matter. I realise there are many arguments for saying it is not necessary. However, at times we all believe that decentralisation often delivers the best results. Local councils are in touch with the people. I recall sitting on Cashel Town Council for many years. After the annual estimates meeting, one would go outside the door having struck a rate and there were people waiting outside to meet those involved and to discuss issues immediately. One had to defend what one did or explain something. If one removed town councils there would be a vacuum.

We all speak from our own experience but we see the town of Cashel as an ancient city and we refer to it as the city of the kings. There is a great ceremonial role for councils in this regard. If one takes away the town council, one takes away the potential for these ceremonial roles whether historical, cultural or whatever. I call on the Minister to consult as widely as possible in his deliberations on the matter because no two councils are the same.

In the past in Tipperary there have been two county councils, as my good friend, Senator Denis Landy, is aware, namely, North Tipperary and South Tipperary County Councils. These are to amalgamate but there is also a suggestion abroad that we might go further and link two or three councils together. I caution against such a move because we see county loyalty in question in Croke Park and everywhere and it is remarkably strong and an asset in itself. The Minister touched on this in his presentation. It would be a great pity if we did not continue to acknowledge loyalty to a particular county because we need it now more than ever. I believe the Minister will give a good deal of consideration to this when we are discussing any future amalgamation.

I have left the question of funding late in what I have had to say because I do not believe it is the primary issue. The more we can hold discussions with all partners at local level when funding is available, the better. In this context we may be able to ensure that a particular body can do exceptionally good work with the help of a bedrock of volunteerism and great expertise that is not amateurish in any way and much of which is professional. In the case of a recession such as this one such a body might suffer and people may not be aware of the suffering imposed on such an organisation. I hope there can be a local focus whereby we could ensure this would not happen and that the organisations that have been delivering something will be a help in this regard.

The Minister made a good point with regard to fund-raising and methodology. I offer one small suggestion for the Minister to consider. If one has a few euro to spare at the moment and one put it in the bank one would be lucky to get 0.5% for it. I suggest legislation should be introduced to allow organisations to get loans from outside bodies at a given time, at whatever percentage, such that the person given the loan would not have to pay DIRT. This would mean that at the whim of banks money in deposits, which is dormant to a large degree, would be delivered up to the investor and released back out to the various organisations, the advantage being that they might get it at the rate of 1% or 1.5%. We have operated this system in an organisation and I have seen it working. I am absolutely amazed at the amount of money that is available. If legislated for, it would give the organisations an opportunity of tapping into that money which is lying in banks. I do not think any of us is particularly worried if the banks lose that bit of money and it comes back out into the community.

There are many foundations not just in Ireland but in America, all of which have their own particular focus. People have a case for tapping into those foundations but they do not have the expertise to do it. It would be wonderful if local authorities and the Department would assist people to identify the foundations and the theme of the foundations and provide back-up assistance to enable people tap in. I saw a case recently with a local organisation but I will not mention the foundation. One cannot apply to the foundations, they must make the approach. In this case, a particular organisation was advised to apply on the basis that it would get about €10,000. A person from the foundation happened to attend a particular event and was pleased with what he or she saw and advised the organisation to make an application for €30,000. These are only examples but they are much more prolific than one might think. We need the backup and the professional assistance.