James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)

Her question primarily addressed the recruitment moratorium, the numbers of people who have left and those who may leave before February. The moratorium is a blunt instrument but we are trying to refine it to make special exceptions in areas where we believe they need to be made. We are caught between a rock and a hard place, given the IMF-EU troika and its requirements of us. It will not bring any comfort to this Chamber but health has led the way in that this area has reduced numbers more than others have. We have also got close to the budgetary requirement of €1 million in cuts, in a manner that most people would not have believed possible. That is cold comfort to patients lying on trolleys and children waiting for surgery. As Minister for Health and as a member of a Cabinet that must live under the troika arrangement, I have to live with a hard reality. This is because of a previous Government that lost us our sovereign financial independence.

There is a great deal of confusion about the February date. The Acting Chairman will forgive me if I spend two minutes on this issue. This is not an early retirement scheme but the ordinary entitlement of any public servant to retire. People reaching a particular age will do the sums and say to themselves, "In February, if I go, I'm going to get my lump sum untouched and X, Y and Z in terms of pension. If I wait till after February the Government has said it will change the rules and we don't know what those rules are yet". They may jump or they may not.

I asked the HSE to do a study on the risks to the system looking at the age profile of people who might choose to leave and further looking at the numbers who made inquiries about pensions, who would be considered to present a higher risk of leaving. I asked the HSE to look at the impact this would have in the various areas and it is doing so. It is impossible to say with absolute certainty what will happen but we are getting a handle on likely scenarios and will make provision for them. In other words, we will not end up with a situation where the entire senior nursing management of a particular institution leaves, with the consequent closure of the institution for that reason alone. There might be other reasons certain nursing units have to close, financial reasons that have nothing to do with this aspect. I will be honest, as I have been in this House and the Lower House. I will tell people when an issue concerns safety, when staffing, when finance. It may not be nice to hear but we will be honest.