Rónán Mullen (Independent)

I thank the Minister for his reply. The final point he made was his strongest. I acknowledge what he said in that regard. What would normally happen in a situation such as this - even when amendments are drafted perfectly - is that a Minister would ask that the amendment be withdrawn and that he or she would reflect on the matter and return to it on Report Stage. That is really the logic of what the Minister said. He reminded me of St. Augustine while he was speaking and his position could be summed up by use of the phrase "Lord make me pure but not yet". It is quite clear that the Minister is in perfect harmony with the intention behind my amendment and I do not believe he has given a good reason for not introducing the necessary change. He indicated his sympathy but stated that he inherited a situation which he is going to allow to stand and that he is not willing to take the major step which, deep down, he believes should be taken. In that context, it is not acceptable to argue that a technical deficiency in the drafting of the amendment prevents its acceptance. I would be happy to withdraw the amendment if the Minister indicated his willingness to bring forward a corrected version on Report Stage. For that reason, perhaps we should not take all Stages of the Bill today. After all, the thrust of what the Minister said is that I am right.

The Minister is quite correct with regard to graduated penalties. He made a mistake, however, because there is a need to distinguish between penalties and offences. The amendment relates to something being an offence and, as such, it does not refer to the penalties. One can put in place all the graduated penalties one wishes but that is a different matter to deciding whether something should be an offence. That is a distinction which the Minister ought to acknowledge. It is certainly the case that it could be appropriate to have graduated penalties. It is a different issue. A penalty is a consequence of committing an offence but I am talking about what should or should not be an offence. We ought to make that distinction.

Given that I have spoken for the past couple of minutes I hope the Minister will have a massive change of heart. I hope the good Senator acting for the Leader will now ask for a change to the Order of Business and we will not take Report Stage today. Perhaps my naïveté is showing.