Dr. Maurice Manning:

Yes, I felt I was being wafted back in time. The only difference between me, as Leader of the House, and Senator Cummins is that I had a working majority of minus five in those days so it was great fun and the Government listened to us a little, but for all the wrong reasons.

I thank everybody for the very warm welcome I got here and the very kind things said about me, I appreciate them all very much. I also appreciate the tributes that have been rightly paid to the work of the commissioners and staff of the Irish Human Rights Commission. It is a great affirmation of our work that we were given this opportunity to speak today on major human rights themes. A great number of questions were asked. I will try to answer specific ones and broadly indicate some other areas.

Senator Walsh raised many philosophical questions with which I am not sure I would be able to wrestle at the moment. However, I assure him that when I next see him in Wexford we can discuss those issues and I am sure he will accept that.

Senator Bacik raised some very fundamental issues. Much of what she raised is contained in the reports of the civil society groups and the Irish Human Rights Commission. Those views are very clearly spelled out regarding the universal periodic review. I would not have time nor am I sufficiently prepared to go into all of them now. I will just say two things. First, the universal periodic review will represent a big test for the Government and the Department of Justice and Equality. In previous UN appearances Ireland has tended to be defensive about its record and there to refute points made rather than to show a way forward. I believe there is a great deal that is positive in our human rights record and I hope the Government will engage in this way and use the occasion to come back determined to raise our observations and so forth rather than keeping them where they are.

One issue that was raised, away from which I do not want to shy, relates to the rights of the unborn. When I was first elected to this House in 1981 that issue was just beginning to take off. The early 1980s were some of the most bitter, nasty and dirty days in Irish politics when this issue was being addressed. Anybody who lived through that time will not want to go back again. However, it is an issue upon which as a society we do not seem to be able to get agreement. Sincere and very fundamentally different views were argued on both sides of the House today. While we can probably never bring finality to the matter, it is time we tried to at least get some sort of national clarity. I believe the proposed constitutional convention represents the opportunity for that. It is a constitutional issue and there will be time there to try to find some sort of agreement. It simply may not be possible to get agreement but at least the matter should be argued within a proper calm setting. I am sure the Senator would agree it should be debated in the House. Today's contributions on the subject were very strong and interesting.

Senator Bacik and a number of other Senators raised the issue of human rights in prisons. The question of what is wrong in prisons is well analysed. We blew the opportunity we had in the Celtic tiger years to provide some of the accommodation that is needed and it will be a long haul back to that. I am very encouraged by two things. The first is having a very serious inspector of prisons, who takes his job very seriously. He visits prisons at unorthodox hours and is his own man in this regard. In all he has written he has attempted to apply international human rights standards to all his observations. I am also very impressed with the work of the Irish Penal Reform Trust, where there is genuine debate. In his slightly long speech in Blackhall Place on a Friday evening at a time when most of us would prefer to be elsewhere, the Minister demonstrated a very clear engagement with the issues. The issue is well analysed and we know what needs to be done.

I very much appreciated Senator Mullen's contribution. Most of the questions he raised would find their place within the constitutional convention. It is not that they should not be debated here, but we should try to find some national understanding at the constitutional convention.

I am very grateful to Senator Cullinane for his very supportive words on the merger. He raised the question of the charter of rights. The Northern Ireland Human Rights Commission and the Irish Human Rights Commission produced a document some months ago on what should be the key elements of a charter of rights for the whole island of Ireland. There were great problems in getting agreement, but we did so and my opposite number, Professor Monica McWilliams, saw it as one of her priorities before she retired to produce the basis for a charter of rights. While there are many human rights topics this House could usefully debate, that is a very obvious one.

Senator Zappone also raised the merger. In my speech last week in the presence of the Taoiseach, I spelled out what I regard as the key principles for any new merged body, including genuine independence, accountability to the Oireachtas and proper resources. There were approximately six key principles. When the Bill comes before the House we will be looking for Senators' vigilance. Very often the devil is in the detail with such legislation. We would welcome the support of all parties in the House to try to get the strongest possible human rights and equality infrastructure. Both are different but vital and each must have breathing space in the new structure.

I agree with everything that Senator White said about Denis Donaldson and as I have told her before, we acted on that basis. I believe there is an urgent need to reform the law on inquests. The Senator has very legitimate questions that need to be answered and action needs to be taken. I support her fully in what she said.

Senator Hayden has a great record in the housing area. It is a difficult matter and in some ways the constitutional convention might be the place for these issues. However, the commission would be very happy to meet her to discuss the issue and see if we can make progress.

Senator Leyden spoke about the Garda Síochána and trade union membership with regard to the Association of Garda Sergeants and Inspectors. We would be very happy to engage with the Garda on the issue. Our only job would be to establish if there is a human rights basis for trade union rights for police and we would be more than happy to meet the Association of Garda Sergeants and Inspectors.

Many other questions were raised and I hope I am not being discourteous. Senator O'Brien raised rights regarding health. Senator Healy Eames will be very interested in this matter. The commission did much work in the Pope John Paul II Centre in Galway on the rights of young people with disabilities. We produced a report that outlined what the HSE needs to do if it is to ensure the rights of young people with disabilities. While it has been pretty positive in its response, it is a slow process and it will engage. On the bigger question, we have only just begun to talk to HIQA, which is very enthusiastic. There are a number of priority issues for the new merged body. We did not have the resources to do as much as we would have liked, but we spent a great deal of time considering the issue of disabilities, especially the work of Professor Gerry Quinn. I would see it as a priority for the new body - I do not know if I will be around to influence it-----