Rónán Mullen (Independent)

I thank the Minister for his response. I reiterate that I do not mean to suggest in any way - I am sorry if I did - that the Minister lacked an understanding of the complexities. I put on record my acknowledgement that the Minister has been heroic in the part he has played in the hunt for accountability throughout the years. I completely accept the Minister's bona fides and grasp of the issues. However, I have a problem with what is taking place. Issues of complexity arise and I take the view that my amendment addresses this complexity in a necessary way.

The Acting Chairman and I have joked in the past about the phrase "every dog and divil" and its utility in various contexts. The issue of using the word "calibre" is relevant to my amendment. In no sense do I question anyone's intelligence or integrity, but another phrase about dogs is "there is no point in having a dog and barking yourself". When it comes to making important and delicate judgments that is where judges come in. This is why we have tended almost always to put judges in charge of tribunals and commissions of inquiry. They have a particular expertise and training. As I said to the Acting Chairman in the course of my informal exchange, I would not offer to audit his accounts because I have no skills in accountancy. The consensus view here appears to be that with regard to the conduct of the Seanad Committee on Members' Interests last year, some people did not contribute and others did contribute and were vocal. Some had legal training and some did not. In hindsight that mishmash proved to be problematic.

No disrespect is intended. A variety of skills and talents are on offer but first and foremost we are here to be legislators, to consider Government proposals on policy and legislation and to act accordingly. Giving us investigative functions raises important questions. It remains my view that there is a problem with the investigative function that would be conferred in us and with the way in which the balance between the rights of persons and the public interest is sought to be achieved. I am open to correction but I do not recall receiving as the head of the group representative-----