Thomas Byrne (Fianna Fail)

Gabhaim buíochas don Aire as teacht isteach sa Seanad inniu. Tá an-tábhacht ag baint le hAire atá chomh gnóthach leis an Aire Airgeadais ag teacht isteach anseo. Cuireann sin in iúl cé chomh tábhachtach agus atá an Bille seo.

I want to protest, in the most emphatic terms, that all Stages of this legislation are being taken today. If the Seanad is to become a rubber-stamp exercise, let us admit that and say it is just a rubber stamp exercise and that we will all go home, but if the Seanad is to have any role in the future, having regard to the referendum whenever it will take place, this should not be simply a foregone conclusion. It is up to the Seanad, particularly the Leader and the Deputy Leader, to advocate the cause of the Seanad to ensure Fine Gael and the Labour Party adhere to their commitment not to use the guillotine. While use of the guillotine is appropriate in certain circumstances, it is not appropriate to publish legislation on a Monday or a Tuesday, offer us a briefing on it the following day, which in fairness we got, and then pass all Stages of it on the following day. That is completely unacceptable. I urge Fine Gael and the Labour Party to advocate this within their parties and ask their parties, party leadership and Whips to stick to what they told the people prior to the general election about Dáil and Seanad reform. That is very important.

Having said that, this legislation is extremely important. It is another huge imposition on the people, one that certainly cannot be laid at the foot of this or the previous Government. This relates to the activities of a very small number of people, some of whom are still categorised as heroes in this country. I do not believe they are heroes and never did. When I stood up for the workers of Quinn Insurance, I certainly did not stand up for any particular individual, like many of its misguided workers did. It was a scandal of enormous proportions for which the people will pay directly in their insurance premiums.

While we all welcome the sale of the company to Liberty and are delighted that many jobs are being saved, it is a scandal that this particular episode has caused the closure of the Quinn centre in Navan. It is a beautiful building suitable for any type of good business. Any multinational would be ideally suited there. The centre is closed, empty and has no purpose now. That can be all laid at the door of a very small number of individuals who thought they knew more than anyone else in this country. They thought they could gamble millions and win and make themselves even richer than they were already. Anything they may have done in their own communities is irrelevant when one sees the hurt that has been caused throughout the country and the reputational damage, in particular.

I was delighted when Matthew Elderfield, in his early days in office, took action to protect policyholders and consumers. I was delighted to fully support his action while many others in the then Opposition criticised him and said what he was doing to the Quinn business was shocking as it was a viable business. We see the facts now in front of us and are all agreed it is a scandal and a disgrace. However, we are where we are, to use that most unfortunate phrase coined in recent years. I am not sure what purpose is served by us opposing this legislation, although we have concerns about it. We have not had time to finalise our position on it in the light of the very short notice we received of its introduction. It may well be the case that my Dáil colleagues will adopt a modified or different position. I hope that will be understood in terms of the position we are in and the very short notice that was given of its introduction.

I would like to know from the Minister when these matters arose. This issue has been on the agenda for quite some time. It seems we have not been complying with European law for some time. Why is this coming before the Seanad now? We know there is a sale to be completed in a month's time but why was this matter not addressed in a more thoughtful way in early summer or late spring? I have outlined who I believe to be responsible for this. This is just another imposition on people, another charge that people have to pay when they are really strapped for cash already. There seems to be charges coming at them from all directions.

We on this side obtained a good deal of documentation under freedom of information requests, which certainly clarified the position for us. We saw evidence of the Department of Social Protection opposing the decision or advising against it. We saw the same advice being given by the Pensions Board. We saw e-mails from lobbyists for the insurance industry looking for pensioners to be cut directly rather than, as the Taoiseach said, to be taken off the fees attached to the pension funds. Is that type documentation available here on the pros and cons of this? Are there any arguments against it? Are there any other ways out? The Minister has gone into this in some detail, but he will understand that when we saw documentation we got under FOI requests we were more questioning of it than we were previously.

A number of brief issues arise. The Minister read a short sentence about the €280 million that he will have to lodge in October. I have some understanding of the rules covering the deficit. If he has to lodge that amount, from where will it be obtained? From what account will he get the €280 million given that we are strapped for cash? I assume that the levy will not have yielded that amount by then. The Minister has said he has made appropriate provision for it and I wonder how will he simply magic that up? I am sure there is some rational answer to this.

The provision in regard to the failure of an Irish authorised company operating abroad is very important. I am glad that has been introduced. I wonder why that has not been done previously and the Minister might enlighten us on it. Was there a failure or was it not spotted? It seems to be a major issue.

I do not know if it is considered a problem but in regard to travel insurance obtained from companies abroad, it strikes me that many citizens may take out travel insurance from foreign owned companies. Are their protections lessened or are there sufficient protections in place? I am not trying to make a political point on this, I simply want to know the answer to that. Has it been considered?

I welcome the Minister's exclusion in regard to health insurance. It is a very volatile area. The pressure is moving from the insurance companies to the individuals and the State when the individuals come off health insurance. That measure will be welcome. It will make some difference to families and it certainly will not disincentivise them any more but obviously this area is a minefield. The Government has its own proposals in regard to health and insurance reform in that sector. We would like to see that debate moving on.

I will not oppose this legislation. Any of the votes or quorums we call will be purely on a procedural basis, but my Dáil colleagues reserve the right to bring forward amendments or to modify our position whenever this legislation comes before the Dáil. I will leave that to them. I would appreciate if the Minister could answer the queries I have about the legislation.