Paschal Mooney (Fianna Fail)

I go a certain distance with the Minister. I remember that when the Minister of the day withdrew the right of councillors to intervene with regard to waste management it attracted a great deal of criticism. However, decisions being taken on the ground were not in the national interest. I have always felt the size of our country means local and national representatives work more closely with their constituents than in other countries.

I was taken somewhat with what Senator Cullinane stated about the number of delegations which have gone to Europe to look at incinerators. While I am no expert in the area, I have come to the conclusion, particularly as a result of speaking with people - local representatives in the main - who have travelled to see incinerators in action, that modern technology means incineration is not the great anti-environmental project which many people state it is. We will have to deal with waste, and recycling alone will not be sufficient to do so. The arguments and objections put forward by Senator Cullinane, his party and others are not so much about the concept of incineration per se, although I know he stated he was against it in principle, but about where an incinerator is to be located.

The Minister has shown himself to be independent in thought in this regard. He has tried to create a balance between restoring powers to local authorities, which I fully support as do all of us who have been elected, and taking account of the reality whereby waste management decisions must be taken in the national interest. If councillors or local authority officials were to thwart these objectives it would not be in the wider interests.

Earlier, I asked the Minister about non-recyclable plastic. I am grateful to one of the Minister's officials for clarifying the matter. In principle, everything is recyclable but because of the complex nature of recycling certain components of some widely-consumed plastics it would be very costly to do so, and a small country such as Ireland could not take a unilateral position on it. As a crusading Minister, perhaps the Minister will take on board that at last an initiative at EU level to address the issue of the non-recyclable nature of some plastics. It will have to be an EU initiative and I hope Ireland will be at the forefront of ensuring this can be done. Because of our small market, we will not be able to do this and it may thwart the efforts of the Minister and the collective effort to ensure these materials do not go to landfill. Incinerators are the only way to achieve this. I infer from the figure of 0.2% which the Minister mentioned earlier with regard to Norway that incinerators are in operation there along with other waste management methods. This gives the lie to the view that we should not have incineration. It is used in Scandinavia, which is one of the most environmentally aware regions in the world.

I am in favour of incineration because not only will modern incinerator technology address the issue of landfill and recycling but it will create energy which can be recycled for the benefit of society. I make these remarks because I do not agree with the amendment and because it is important that the Minister ensures the incineration debate, which seems to have quietened down, is not resurrected by shibboleths about incineration being wrong and recycling being good with no meeting of minds between them.