Ivana Bacik (Independent)

I wish to share time with Senator Hayden.

I welcome the Minister who is a regular visitor to the House. I also welcome the provisions in the Bill to address white collar crime seriously. In a way it has not been dealt sufficiently seriously previously. As Senators Bradford and O'Donovan acknowledged, there is a perception among the public, in particular, that those engaged in white collar crime, particularly in the banking sector, have been getting away with it for too long. There is concern that it should be dealt with seriously and it is welcome that we are doing so. I also welcome the commencement of section 27 of the 2001 Act, which, as the Minister said, should have happened before now.

There is concern about the lack of prosecution arising out of what happened in the banking sector and, in particular, INBS and Anglo Irish Bank. As Senator Quinn mentioned, there is a sense that reckless bankers went on a testosterone fuelled lending spree, which resulted in the false foundation of the boom and the subsequent collapse, with disastrous consequences for the economy. The bank guarantee introduced by the previous Government in September 2008 made a bad situation worse by converting private debt into sovereign debt, which resulted in the IMF having to intervene. The Government seeks to deal with the consequences of that in a context not of its making. Earlier on the Order of Business, there was a cross-party welcome for the reduction on the interest rates on the bailout loans and the renegotiation that took place last week. None of us in government chose to be in this position. Sinn Féin was highly critical earlier but we will not take lectures from that party on this because we are trying to deal with the consequences of what went on and we need to be able to pay for public services, which is the bottom line.

There is immense public worry about what will come down the tracks in the budget. All of us are also concerned about that. More than 400,000 people are unemployed while those who are working face job losses and pay cuts. The worry would be easier to cope with if there was a sense of justice being done at the top level and that is why we are debating this legislation. The Minister referred to a perception of delay in dealing with those who engaged in reckless lending. Clearly, some of that was not criminal but where criminality took place, prosecutions should result. I have discussed this with other criminal lawyers and prosecutions should be brought under section 10 of the Criminal Justice (Theft and Fraud Offences) Act 2001 for false accounting. This provides for an offence, which appears to have been committed. Simpler offences such as that could be prosecuted more swiftly than the complex corporate offences that are also under investigation arising from the actions of the banking sector.

While the Bill seeks to strengthen procedures for dealing with white collar crime, existing laws could have dealt with such crime before now. They have not been used enough. Part of the problem has been a lack of enforcement and the absence of a culture in which white collar crime was taken as seriously as street crime. The legislation contains welcome provisions, particularly that relating to whisteblowing. That was added on Committee Stage on the Dáil. The Minister acknowledged that the programme for Government contains a commitment to introduce more comprehensive legislation on whistleblower protection in the medium term. I do not know whether he can outline the medium term because that legislation is long overdue. Section 20 and the Second Schedule will go some way to providing protection for whistleblowers. It is vitally important in aiding investigation into white collar crime. The offence of withholding information in section 19 is also welcome and Part 3, generally, provides clarity about disclosure of documents and information, which has implications for investigation of white collar crime.

Part 2 is the most substantive element of the legislation with section 7 providing for enhanced powers to suspend a detention period. Amendments in this Part relate to the detention regime under the Criminal Justice Act 1984, which are welcome, particularly section 9, which seeks to bring clarity to the law on access to a solicitor. I have always thought we should go further and provide for the right to have a solicitor present during questioning, as is the case in England and Wales under the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984. That would save a great deal of court time and expense currently spent on voir dire. Many issues raised during criminal trials and judicial reviews relate to questioning during detention periods. If the right to have a solicitor present was provided for in law, it might address many of these issues. At least section 9 will clarify the need for consultation before interviews are commenced. In practice, any portion of an interview carried out in a Garda station before a suspect has had access to a solicitor tends to be excluded.

I am glad the issue of overnight suspension has been clarified. Section 7 provides for the power to suspend an interview for up to four months, the rationale behind which I understand. However, several points need to be clarified. I note the member in charge who gives permission for the change of time to return must be an inspector. Has any thought been given to assigning this duty to a higher rank?

Most of the offences covered in the Schedule are complex. Section 3 refers to the complexity of investigations and so forth. Sections 4, 17 and 18 of the Criminal Justice (Theft and Fraud Offences) Act 2001 may not relate to white-collar crime and may not be so complex. Was any thought given to the issue of the use of the new power in section 7?

I will raise other points on Committee Stage. I welcome the Bill.