Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)

I thank the Senators for tabling the amendments. I listened carefully to what was said the last day and, as Senator Bacik pointed out, we are tabling an amendment to return the age to 70; nothing more needs to be said about that.

I want to put into context what we are doing and why we are doing it and why I cannot take on board the other amendment. As Senator Barrett correctly said, there is statutory provision for two taxing masters and we have only one at present; the other taxing master retired at the end of last year. There is, under the EU-IMF agreement, an obligation to introduce various reforms relating to the legal profession and that legislation should be published by the end of September. Substantial work has been done on the preparation of a legal services Bill but there is work to be done in the Attorney General's office so the Bill is only in the developmental stage at this point.

The Bill will deal comprehensively with the issue of legal costs, including dispute resolution for those costs in circumstances in which a litigant is successful in the courts, an order for costs is obtained against another litigant and where they cannot agree on what costs should be paid by the unsuccessful litigant. At present the matter goes to the taxing master who makes an adjudication on the appropriate sum. Also, if there is a dispute between a solicitor and a client over the fees charged either by the solicitor or the solicitor and counsel, that currently is dealt with by the taxing master. While we have regard to the report produced by the Competition Authority, the Horan report, and other reports subsequent to that we are dealing with the whole area of legal costs and the necessary reforms. The Bill will provide for a new and more modern adjudicative process and will set out a range of important principles in the area.

To some extent, then, the debate about age becomes irrelevant because it is envisaged there will be a new format within which legal costs will be dealt with and transitional provisions will apply to whoever is the taxing master or masters at the time when the legislation comes into place. We provided for a fixed term, which will only apply to the future appointment of taxing masters, because it is envisaged that there will be only one further appointment of a taxing master based on the reforms provided for in this legislation and within the five year period the new system will be in place and transitional provision will apply to existing taxing masters. It does not make sense to provide for a term of more than five years for whoever may be appointed to fill the gap that currently exists to ensure that while the legislation is being developed, enacted and ultimately brought into force, we still have a functioning system for costs adjudication. It makes sense that whoever is next appointed is on a fixed term contract that would not exclude him from involvement at a later stage in the new body that will be created. Unless we appoint someone who is over 60, whether 65 or 70 is the retirement age will not greatly matter because there should be no age discrimination with regard to who is appointed.

I am happy to incorporate in the Bill the change from 65 to 70 but to deal specifically with Senator Barrett and Zappone's amendments, amendment No. 11 opposes all of subsection (6) and would strike out all three of the proposed new terms of appointment of a taxing master, namely that such appointment should not exceed five years, that it is non-renewable and that it be subject to retirement at age 65. The age 65 issue is being addressed in the Government amendment but this amendment would eliminate the other two matters from the Bill. Amendment No. 13 would only apply to the retirement provision in seeking to amend the retirement age to 66. We are returning it to 70 so taking on board what Senator Bradford said, we are taking the view that 70 is the new 50. I hope when I reach that age that I still feel like a 50 year old.

We had a useful and helpful debate on these provisions and in the circumstances I hope Senators will not press the amendments. The age issue was the main issue to be addressed. It is reasonable in the context of the development of the legal services Bill that the other matters remain in place and I am looking forward to a detailed debate on that Bill when it is published and introduced. I thank Senators Barrett and Zappone for getting me to tell the House more about that Bill. Senator Mooney did not on this occasion get the additional bit of news and I will resist the temptation to remind him that the previous Government requires me to reduce Garda numbers from 14,500 to 13,000.