Rónán Mullen (Independent)

I have listened with great interest to what the Minister has said. He said certain things with which I agree very much. He has not managed, however, in making some of these points, to note the not so subtle distinctions between the amendments I am proposing to the legislation and those of Senator O'Donovan. He and I are coming from slightly different places, although I completely accept Senator O'Donovan's bona fides in the way he has addressed the issue. However, I have a slightly different approach. What the Minister needed to acknowledge was that the totality of my amendments, were they accepted, would leave very much in place a situation where there would be a very wide pool of applicants for the posts of military judge and Director of Military Prosecutions. That is to say that I am very open to opening the potential list of applicants beyond membership of the Permanent Defence Force. My amendments would allow that any solicitor or barrister with the requisite years of practice would be in a position to apply for these posts. This is a very important point because it lays bare the inadequacy of the Minister's apparent claim that were he to accede to what is being sought in the Seanad, it would leave a very closed shop to the benefit of one or a few.

I refer to a couple of general points which need to be addressed and which were raised by the Minister. I do not believe that it is inappropriate to talk about individuals in this Chamber or in the other House. Sometimes the only way one can make sense of an issue is by talking about individuals and this is very much an instance of same. As I explained yesterday, the context in which this Bill was brought forward is crucial and, in my view, it has very much to do with the interests of a particular individual. There is nothing wrong in talking about individuals and the Members of this House have been very responsible in not naming that individual, simply out of a desire not to embarrass the person. I have no difficulty because I do not know that individual and I have no difficulty with that person. I have no difficulty even with that person being appointed to the job if he or she is suitably qualified. However, I have a difficulty with any possibility that legislation is designed with the needs of a particular individual in mind or partially in mind, without this House being told so. That is the first issue.

The second issue has to do with motives. We are in the position of talking about this issue today because, effectively, we have had contact with what are, in fact, whistleblowers. These people, in good faith, have raised a problem about what has been happening. They have drawn our attention to a certain factual substratum behind the proposed legislation. The reason I became exercised in this Chamber this morning rather than excited - I inform the Minister it would take more than that to excite me - is that some Senators did not recognise a genuine issue for the Order of Business when they heard it. I was leading to a proposal that the House would not consider this legislation further today until Members of the House and others and the public have had an opportunity to consider the issues properly because I think an issue of impropriety of some kind has arisen. This is the reason I raised the issue this morning on the Order of Business and it is an important issue having to do with how we order our business in the House.

The other issue has to do with motives. There is nothing wrong with taking information from people who have certain motives, provided those persons and the recipient of the information are fully informed as to how that person stands to benefit or not from what transpires. This is called declaring an interest. In any contact I have had with any person to do with these issues, any interests have been fully declared to me.

There are two aspects underlying my amendments. I expressed in detail yesterday my concern about the factual background which has led to this particular legislation. I remind the Minister that I am not in opposition. A degree of oppositional politics is necessary, but I have no beef with the Minister. I have no desire to catch him out on anything or oppose him for the sake of it. I am approaching this issue in absolute good faith. As I indicated yesterday, I support two out or three of the central proposals in the Bill. On another matter, the Minister made a comment recently on the abortion issue. I would not mind having a friendly chat with him about that at some point.