Colm Burke (Fine Gael)

I welcome the Minister to the House and thank her for setting time aside to deal with this matter. I also thank Senator Leyden for introducing the Bill. I agree with what the Minister said. If I was asked to write a speech for her it would match what she said word for word. As someone who has been in legal practice for over 25 years I am well aware of the difficulties that can arise when a will is lost, but I am not too sure whether this Bill is a solution to that problem. When people make wills, the important thing they should do is to advise the executors that they have made it. People are sometimes reluctant to make wills but, having made a will, they can also be reluctant to advise their executors that it has been made and where it is deposited.

The reason many people do not make wills is that they think they have all the angles covered. In the last 30 years it has become the case that most property and many accounts are held in joint names. That is good and represents progress but it does not cover a situation, for example, in which two parents die in an accident, and that is where complications arise. When people are thinking about wills they may think they do not need to make one because their property is in joint names but that is one reason people should make wills. We need to keep highlighting that issue.

I came across a sad situation a number of years ago in which a will could not be located. It was not my own office that had been acting for the person, who had property in Ireland and in the UK. One of the problems was that property was disappearing from the house in the UK, so I sent my client over to the UK to get all the furniture out and sold. In the course of cleaning out the house the client found an old handbag and in it, lo and behold, was a carbon copy of a will. However, there was no evidence of its having been signed or witnessed. In fairness to the person who found it, she was the one who lost the most after it was found because she did not receive as much as she would have in the case of intestacy. I remember making an application to the High Court to have the document admitted into probate and it was, even though no signature was evident. The interesting thing about the case was that the person who drafted the document would sign an affidavit only to the effect that he had drafted the document but not to the effect that he had witnessed the will being signed. This was a case in which we found out the person's real intentions and the court accepted them.

This Bill tries to address problems that occur in cases in which people have made wills, but this is not the way forward in dealing with this issue. Much consultation is required. In fairness to Senator Bacik, her proposal is something that might be considered.

Another issue is that of home-made wills. There can be problems with these if people take short-cuts. I remember an example from the Leas-Chathaoirleach's part of the country in which a parish priest made a will but did not want anyone to know he had made it. The will was not properly done. When we spoke with the witnesses who signed the will, we learned the only time they were in the priest's house together was when the woman was making arrangements for her wedding. She thought the documents she was signing were related to her wedding. Subsequently, neither of them would sign affidavits affirming they were witnesses to the will. I am concerned about homemade wills and the procedure of registering them.