Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)

Let me return to the substance of what we are dealing with and what is desirable in all of this.

Senator O'Donovan described the Bill as a dangerous precedent. At least Senator Mullen had the decency to acknowledge two very important reforms contained in the Bill albeit he expressed reservations about an issue concerning which I hope we will have a friendly disagreement. I believe extending the criteria is a good idea.

I do not suggest we extend this to the wider court system but in the context of dealing with the military judge and military tribunal there are far too few people who are currently eligible for appointment and we need to extend the pool. However, I also draw the attention of Members to the fact that in other countries it is absolutely normal, not simply in military matters but in wider court systems, to appoint as judges learned legal academics in universities, advocates who have never practised as lawyers. Some very eminent members of the United States Supreme Court have been appointed in this way. To be a good judge one does not have to be a good advocate. Some very poor advocates become extraordinarily good judges and there have been some very good advocates who may have disappointed some of us when they were appointed to the bench. One thing does not follow from the other.

In this country we have a very narrow pool and focus when it comes to making appointments of practising barristers and solicitors to the Judiciary but there is a broad range of individuals from which selections can be made. In this instance there is a narrow range of individuals and therefore what we must do is consider other individuals who have practical experience, the qualifications of barrister or solicitor and the legal expertise that makes them eligible for this appointment. We will have an independent committee that determines this - it will not be the Minister. The Minister will not select any appointment as military judge. Ultimately, this will come from the committee that makes the recommendation. That is the way the matter works. When the committee makes the recommendation the Minister may formally make the appointment but I will certainly not go out independently on any kind of solo run as to who should be appointed. It would be highly inappropriate for me to do so.

In that context, I point out to Senators that, although small, this is an important piece of legislation. It deals with areas where there are difficulties and anomalies. The truth is that for too long the Department of Defence and the requirements of legal changes in that Department dealing with the Defence Forces have been Cinderella issues in the Houses of the Oireachtas. They are always put on the back list of legislation and not given the priority they deserve. I thank this House for taking this legislation with some speed to facilitate our addressing an important issue.

It was suggested to me that we might deal with this Bill all in one day but I understood absolutely that Senators would not wish to do that and we ordered Second Stage for today. As Minister, I could not allow a situation to continue until next autumn whereby no military tribunal was functioning and an increasing number of individuals were waiting for their cases to be heard. That was completely unsustainable. It was urgent that this legislation become enacted before the August break. When I was informed that Senators were unhappy that we take Committee and Report Stages on the one day it took me all of three seconds to state I had no difficulty in our taking them on a different day. As I now understand it, we will take Report Stage on Friday.

The issue in question is not about trying to pull a fast one on anybody. The urgency of dealing with this is found in 22 outstanding cases that are in a state of stasis. That is not acceptable. It undermines the credibility of the juridical system to which the Defence Forces are attached and from which they expect a degree of performance consonant with the rights of the individuals who find themselves coming before a military tribunal.

I hope that in that context I have addressed most of the issues Senators have raised, and that I have not omitted an issue.

I hope also that I have addressed in a straightforward way the various allegations that have arisen from my right hand side but I want to refer to another one. It is a great pity that in circumstances in which members of Fianna Fáil are flaying around bereft of any issue of substance on which they can get any credibility because of the extent to which they have destroyed the country, they have decided to go after individual members of Government on a personalised basis. Senator Byrne, who believes he should shout "scandal" to get his name in the newspapers every day, made a false-----