David Cullinane (Sinn Fein)

I welcome the Minister of State to the House. I support the amendment. I support the establishment of this Department but the concern I have about the Bill is whether we will see genuine root and branch reform of the public service and public spending.

On the amendment, I would question the autonomy in real terms of the Minister's position in the Department because the Department and its staff and much of his decision-making powers will remain under the thumb of the Minister for Finance and the Department of Finance. For example, section 14(3) of the Bill gives the Department of Finance control over selling or procuring property which exceeds €50 million. The Minister is also responsible for managing public expenditure within the overall envelope which has been set by the Government but he is not responsible for the budgetary parameters. That is a concern in regard to the powers the Minister would have. The new Department of public expenditure and reform is housed in the Department of Finance and two thirds of the new Department's staff will come from the Department of Finance. We would have concerns about that.

In terms of accountability and ensuring we measure progress, I have a number of specific questions for the Minister of State. How is it intended to measure that success? What parameters will be used? For me, the most important element is the delivery of services, the service provision. The Minister spoke about this earlier in the context of budgets and finance, but the ethos and approach of reform in the public sector must be how we deliver first class, world class, high quality public services to citizens and their level of interaction with public services, how it is measured and the level of service they get. What built-in mechanisms will there be? What reforms will be in place to ensure there is measurement in terms of the level of success of the new delivery of services under this Bill and the changes that have been brought in?

I broadly welcome the Bill but have concerns about the actual powers of the Minister. The new Department must have teeth and be able to do the job it has been set. I have a concern about many of the responsibilities still resting with the Department of Finance and the Minister not having the autonomy he and his Department will need to deal aggressively with many of the issues with which he will be faced. Will the Minister of State respond to some of those questions?