Michael D'Arcy (Fine Gael)

I welcome the motion. I welcome the fact that we are engaging in a good debate on this matter, which is giving rise to carnage among families throughout the country.

There are certain issues with which we must deal. The first of these relates to what constitutes a home and what constitutes a family home. In the context of the Celtic tiger - and to paraphrase a former US President - some people inhaled more than others. The 10% of households with mortgages that are in difficulty are second homes. Those who own them should never have been given loans in the first instance. In such circumstances, banks which lent recklessly should take on the deficit that exists.

I do not wish to rake over the ground covered by Senator Darragh O'Brien. However, it is not possible to ignore the circumstances in which we find ourselves. Our national debt is €100 billion and our deficit this year will be €18 billion. The recapitalisation of the banks cost €70 billion and €35 billion has been paid out on NAMA bonds. When these figures are added together, our overall debt is approaching that of Greece which is on the brink of defaulting on its loans.

My major concern with regard to debt forgiveness is that the taxpayer will be obliged to carry the can. If the latter occurs, will it be the straw that will break the camel's back? Will it push Ireland beyond Greece into the worst position financially within the EU and will that, in turn, prompt the markets to come after us and increase our yields?

There is a need to put a floor in place in respect of the housing market. The only entity which can do this is NAMA. There has been a great deal of discussion about NAMA on the Order of Business in this House. During the lifetime of the previous Government, as a member of the Committee of Public Accounts I had the opportunity to table questions to the most senior official from NAMA. The difficulty with that agency is that it is, in effect, a secret society. We do not have access to the information that is required and NAMA will not release it. As already stated, it is crucial that a floor be put in place in respect of the property market and the only body which can facilitate this is NAMA.

NAMA owns an alarming amount of housing stock at present. Until it decides to put in place a floor in the market by putting a substantial number of properties up for sale, we cannot move forward. When that floor is put in place, the housing sector will be in a position to advance. New mortgages on 11,000 homes were approved in 2010. A similar figure is expected for 2011. That is where we were with a population of more than 1 million fewer people in the 1970s. To put that into context, the numbers receiving mortgages are proportionately considerably less now than they were then.

We need to consider who should benefit if the State is to assist people who are in financial difficulty with their mortgages. Under no circumstances should the State step up for the people who participated - who inhaled fully as I described it. The taxpayer should not give any type of a helping hand to those who bought a 4,000 sq. ft. mansion and had a very modest income. The banks were reckless, but some individuals were also reckless. Under no circumstances should the State step up if somebody bought a large car and put it on the mortgage. We know of other people who were enticed by the banks to bring the family on a round-the-world trip. The State cannot help out those people. While that might sound cold or harsh, that is the reality.

Although we are stretched to the limit, the State must assist the people who have done it properly, and who bought their first homes at the peak of the housing market and now find it does not suit their family. It might have been a two-bedroom apartment of 700 sq. ft. to 800 sq. ft. originally occupied by one person and now has two people and perhaps children. The State must facilitate those people in some way. I am not saying I know for certain because I do not believe anybody knows for certain the right way to do it. However, we cannot facilitate the people who went beyond the beyonds. Those people have personal responsibility for what they did in that period. I feel sorry for them and it will be difficult. I do not know how many of those people are in the 10%. I would like to know where that information is.

The rent supplement is a misnomer because it really has nothing to do with rent. I have come across many landlords whose tenants are getting rent supplement but do not pass it on to the landlord. It is a social welfare payment that is called rent supplement and costs €500 million a year. NAMA is actively trying to offload properties. With that amount of rent supplement the State could use it better and take on board those properties and factor in people who will lose their properties. The State is purchasing nothing at this point. All activity in the local authorities via the Department is for leasing; there are no purchases. That is a mistake at this point when property prices are low. If we can take the opportunity to take over properties that are low in price, we should do so.

I conclude by saying that some people need to be helped and others should not.