Lucinda Creighton (Dublin South East, Fine Gael)

We have no alternative but to make the EU-IMF programme work. There is no doubt about that. If we want to get out of the programme and ensure we borrow less money than is envisaged, we must get back into the international markets to borrow money directly from them. To answer the Senator's question, confidence is exceptionally important. That is the world we live in. We might like a more utopian, ideal world but this is the one we live in. We must make the programme work.

There is scope for much more solidarity. It is difficult, however, because we have a largely home-grown crisis in this country and taxpayers are unhappy with the situation, as I am. In Germany taxpayers have been asked to loan money to countries that may not pay them back. Then when the loan has been secured the next request is for the interest rate to be reduced and some of the debt to be written off or extended. That is not realistic. We must understand not just where we are coming from and our own travails in this country but also understand where they are coming from. If we can achieve a meeting of minds we will be in a much stronger position. The "them and us" approach does not work. We must wake up to that.

I am delighted the President of the European Parliament, Mr. Buzek is coming to visit. We are the last member state he is visiting. He wanted to visit several times in recent years but it was not possible for him to do that for various reasons. He will address the Dáil. That was very much at my insistence. I believe we have secured agreement for that. I expect it will be a joint sitting. I had anticipated a joint sitting when Commissioner Geoghegan-Quinn visited on 9 May but the Taoiseach's nominees to the Seanad had not been appointed and as there was no Seanad in place we could not do that. I expect it will be a joint sitting in the Dáil Chamber.

I see a great potential for this Chamber in contributing to scrutiny of European legislation and policies on behalf of the Oireachtas. I do not believe the new system leaves a vacuum because each sectoral committee will be responsible for scrutiny. That is the way it should happen. This Chamber can add value to the process, as the House of Lords does in Westminster and as many other Upper Houses do across the European Union. It is up to Senators to assert themselves and insist on the role for the House. I would be very supportive of that initiative.

On the establishment of the ESM, it is untrue to say that the ESM gives EU control over domestic budgets or economic policy in member states. That is not the case. We have had closer economic and budgetary co-ordination as a priority of the European Union for many years but it just has not happened. I do not believe a transfer of sovereignty is envisaged through the ESM treaty to the European institutions. Therefore, I do not envisage that it will be necessary to have another referendum on the matter in the State. I have met with the Attorney General already and I intend to meet her and her officials again in the weeks ahead but I do not see any additional transfer of sovereignty envisaged in the ESM, therefore I do not see any reason to hold a referendum.