David Norris (Independent)

I think all Members of this House would have liked to have said a few words about the late Brian Lenihan but, from my point of view, the opinion of the Independent university group was eloquently expressed by Senator Mullen and I do not propose to add further to it because the matter was handled in a very dignified way. I shall write privately to the Lenihan family.

I am particularly interested in what Senator Zappone said and she spoke with remarkable clarity, intelligence and dignity. We must proceed with dignity in this House and I ask the Government parties and the Independent group nominated by the Taoiseach, to get together by lunchtime to see if it is not possible to incorporate the slight Government amendment to this proposal. We demean the Seanad if we call unnecessary votes. The amendment tabled by the Government could possibly be accepted by the Independent group. This very important matter would have greater strength if it were put through unanimously and I think we all would like that to happen. I ask the Leader of the Government parties and the Independent group to meet through their Whips to see if this is possible as this would avoid an unnecessary vote that would make this House look silly.

I am very glad the Government has established an inquiry into the Magdalene laundries. I do not think the remit is quite wide enough and I would prefer it to be slightly wider. I asked originally for the three things the Magdalene survivors asked for, which are an apology, an inquiry and some degree of compensation. Those three elements should be incorporated in the inquiry. I agree completely with Senator Mullen that there should be no scapegoating. I do not think I have ever done so. I have always stated that it is a mistake to label any large group of people - in fact, any group of people - within which there will be good people and bad people, people who behave responsibly and those who behave irresponsibly. Some orders of nuns have been mentioned in particular. Some of them undoubtedly behaved very badly but I have also met representatives of those sisters abroad and they have done this country a great service in their work. We should avoid labelling people. I was a little surprised, and I am sure it was not intended, when Senator Mullen, having said, rightly, that neither the Church nor the State should be scapegoated, and I maintain they must be held accountable in a dignified fashion for their actions-----