Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)

The amendment seeks to refer changes in Seanad procedures to the Committee on Procedure and Privileges, but it is not in any way kicking this motion to touch. The reason we are suggesting that it be considered by the CPP is to put structure on the proposals upon which we agree. I totally agree with them. It is, therefore, a matter of putting the proper structures in place to enable the motion to achieve what it says on the tin. I agree that this House should have direct engagement with citizens. Two weeks ago, I suggested resurrecting the petitions committee, which never got up and running. Senator Quinn referred to petitions committees in places like Scotland and Australia where they work well, but still need to be improved. The debates and petitions committee in the Scottish Parliament sometimes meets from 10 a.m. to 10 p.m., but I am not in favour of a situation like that. We need clear, concise debate and dialogue when we get this petitions committee up and running.

In referring to that committee two weeks ago, I was unaware that the Government intended to have an Oireachtas Joint Investigations, Oversight and Petitions Committee. I firmly believe, however, that we should still go ahead with our petitions committee as soon as possible. It would get this motion working so that such a committee could engage directly with citizens. If there are any obstacles in the way, for example, if the CPP is constrained by Standing Orders, I will suggest that we change the Standing Orders. We need action and I will not be an obstacle in the way of having these reforms brought about.

We need to open our space to others. The only pity is that this did not happen many years ago. If it had, we would not be speaking about the relevance of the Seanad or the possibility of the public deciding whether the House should go. The people will decide this matter. Regardless of whether we are on death row, as Senator Crown stated, when a referendum is called we must convince people of the value and relevance of this House. We do not have too much time in which to do so.

We should definitely bring people, such as European Commissioners, to this House for debates on agriculture and fisheries, as Senators have requested. There will be a reform of the Common Agricultural Policy as well as of the Common Fisheries Policy in the next year or two. MEPs have appeared before the House and we can have more of them here again, in addition to Heads of State and leaders of industry. We must, however, put the necessary structures in place to allow that to happen. That is why I am suggesting that the CPP, as a matter of urgency, should work on this. If the CPP has to work two or three days a week, I will suggest to the Cathaoirleach, who will be chairing the committee, that it does so. It should meet until we have the proper structures in place in order that we can put these proposals into action fairly soon.

Since this Seanad first met, I have put in place some small but significant changes, to which Senator Sheahan alluded. We need much more, however. Politicians do not know it all, and the public is aware of that. There is a need, therefore, for dialogue and an exchange of views with the public. The Seanad reform that was envisaged previously dealt mostly with how the House would be elected. The motion, however, concerns how we will reform our business within the House. We reform or we die; it is as simple as that. We must convince the public in that short period of the value and relevance of the Seanad.

I strongly reiterate that by putting the matter to the CPP, we are in no way kicking it to touch. We want to put the proper structures in place to allow this very good Independent motion to be acted upon. I assure the Independent Senators that it will be acted upon, and the sooner, the better.

I compliment all Senators who have contributed to the debate and especially those who have made their maiden speeches this evening. This is the type of debate we need in this House, so let us ensure it is not just talk but that we can put our words into action. That is what we need to do and it is what every Member of the House wants. I will do everything to facilitate what Members of the House want in this regard.