Susan O'Keeffe (Labour)

I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Creighton, to the Chamber. I particularly welcome the optimism expressed in the contribution made this afternoon by the Minister of State, Deputy Brian Hayes. The idea of turning a corner or of looking to the future or for things to be positive always is welcome. As for the research and development tax credit in particular, I intend to return to the House to discuss some difficulties on the ground regarding research and development in places such as the institutes of technology. Such places are at the heart of research and development, are where businesses will be created and where new ideas will emerge and the Government wants to support them. However, difficulties exist on the ground that present obstacles to people who wish to do business and it is a subject to which I will return. In respect of tourism, the removal of the air travel tax is welcome but I urge that whatever negotiations take place with the airlines should be meaningful and somehow quantifiable. They must ensure the proposal that the airlines will bring in increased passenger numbers is a reality and not an aspiration because the two must go together hand in hand.

I take this opportunity to turn away slightly from the Bill's specific content and to discuss briefly the Money Advice and Budgeting Service, MABS. I was heartened to note that earlier this year, Mr. Jonathan Edwards, the MP for Carmarthen East described the MABS model in Ireland as something to which the Welsh Assembly should aspire and he advocated its adoption for Wales. While people in Ireland are very proud of MABS, if one speaks to those who work on the ground, they will relate that they are overwhelmed. The programme for Government has committed to ensuring that MABS becomes a fully empowered personal debt management agency with strong legal powers to support families' property and to provide protection from creditors where appropriate in order that they have time to sort out their affairs. The promised personal debt management agency will have quasi-judicial status, thereby putting this urgent need for assistance for ordinary people on a strong footing. Much of the work of MABS now pertains to personal debt and I make these remarks in light of the optimism Members have heard this afternoon, as for those people such optimism appears far removed from their reality. Moreover, if a staff of approximately 270 people must deal with more than 20,000 callers annually, Members should do the maths or rather they should not do the maths as it simply does not add up. If one asks 270 people to deal with more than 20,000 distraught and upset people, one will discern immediately the urgent need. I urge the Minister and the Department to ensure this legislation is introduced as a matter of urgency within a reasonable timeframe because it will take time to introduce a personal debt agency with quasi-judicial authority, which will still be too long a time for those desperately trying to work out what to do about their debt. Those working in MABS see themselves as firefighting and talk about their clients being thrown to the wolves. This is not a happy position to be in; we simply cannot ignore the serious debt problems of thousands of citizens.

In urging the Government to press on with the programme for Government and introduce such an agency with stronger powers, while the Welsh may be looking at the MABS model, we may also learn something from them. They have established a financial education unit as a step forward to ensure future generations will be more financially literate. Perhaps we might see a way to introduce such a programme in schools as part of the CSPE curriculum in order that from a very early age children will learn about the management of money. There is significant support in Wales for the fight against illegal moneylending. All Members have heard stories about the so-called Lennies in the midst of our towns and cities. Those affected in communities find it hard to say "Yes" to a lender and even more difficult to say "No" to them. The Taoiseach indicated last month that he would welcome legislation to tighten private debt agencies. We must take care to consider that moneylenders are not wanted in our communities.