Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)

I thank the Senators who contributed to this debate. None of us should be under any illusion as to the level of threat and difficulty caused by organisations like the real IRA and the continuity IRA in the context of subversive activities and general criminality. That was clearly evident in the lead into and during the course of the very successful visit of Queen Elizabeth to this country, when the Garda and the Defence Forces had to deal with various calls made using designated codes. Some of those calls were calls involving the planting of hoax devices, but others involved the planting of devices which posed a threat to people in this State. These threats came from the organisations against whom this legislation is directed. As I and others have said, in a different environment I hope we would not require legislation of this nature. Senator Paul Bradford put it very well, that we have an obligation as democrats to defend democracy and the integrity of this State. This legislation is part of our necessary armoury in doing that.

Senator O'Donovan expressed his support and that of the Fianna Fáil group for the motion before the House. I note his point that instead of us bringing a motion before the House every 12 months, we should, perhaps, extend the provisions in the legislation for two to three years. However, the legislation envisages that there would be an annual report to both Houses. That is a good thing because it gives us, as legislators, an insight into the extent, to some degree, of the activities of subversive organisations and an insight into the extent to which these provisions are being used. I take the point that in a democracy some of the provisions in question are exceptional, but they are designed to deal with the exceptional dangers posed to the community on the whole island of Ireland by the organisations concerned. It is right that we publish an annual report on this and that the Seanad and the Dáil have the opportunity to deliberate on it.

I take the point made by Senators Bacik and Cullinane with regard to the report, that it might be of assistance if, in future years, we included the comparative figures from earlier years. They are available. If one gets last year's report and compares it with this year's report, the information is readily available, as demonstrated by Senator Bacik. I will ensure that if we find ourselves back here this time next year on the same issue, the comparative figures will be included to make them more readily accessible to Members.

I will address some of the issues raised by other Senators. Senator Barrett referred to extreme nationalists. I do not regard these people as nationalists, if they ever could have been regarded as such. Senator Cullinane and others are right. We had the Good Friday Agreement, had voting across the island of Ireland and the peace process was accepted. These individuals had every opportunity to stand for election, North and South, if they chose to do so, to seek a mandate. They did not do so, because they know they do not have a mandate. In so far as they present themselves as Irish nationalists or republicans, they are perfectly happy, on both sides of the island, to play around with explosive devices, threaten people's lives and engage in conduct that is the antithesis of the type of conduct one would expect from a nationalist, committed democrat or person who believes in republicanism. We should not refer to them as that. "Criminal subversives" is the correct description for these individuals and we should not use any other description.

Senator Bacik raised a number of issues, one of which concerned sections of the Act that may not have been used recently but whose application we wish to extend into this year. She referred in particular to section 12. She is correct that this section has not been used in the past three to four years. However, I regard it as a very important section in the context of some of the activity in which these groups engage. It is a section that may well save lives on some occasion in the future. When we look at the extent to which this legislation is being used and the reference to only 38 convictions, those 38 convictions may well have saved lives. The usage of the legislation in circumstances where it is believed that people are engaged in criminality may have intervened to save lives, without there being, as a result of a particular section being used, a decision by the Director of Public Prosecutions to proceed to prosecution. Section 12 is an important section. It makes it an offence for a person to instruct or train another person in the making or use of firearms or explosives or to receive such training without lawful authority or reasonable excuse. From events we have seen in Northern Ireland, we know there are people on this island training others in the use of explosives and the use of firearms. It may well be that in the coming 12 months, this section may well be utilised to great effect, so I am loth to remove it from the architecture of the provisions available in the legislation to An Garda Síochána.

In the context of the overall issue raised, it is crucial that the Garda Síochána should have the best possible resources made available to it and that we preserve its operational capabilities in all aspects of its work, whether countering domestic terrorism, or international terrorism as it affects this island, or tackling the drugs gangs and others engaged in criminality.

The reality is that this Government inherited the EU-IMF agreement and is not in a position of choice in regard to Garda numbers. The financial envelope I inherited as Minister for Justice and Equality made provision for a reduction in the numbers of the Garda Síochána, from 14,500 at the end of 2010 to 13,500 at the end of 2011, without there being any mechanism within the agreements entered into with the IMF and the ECB as to how that reduction would be achieved. That presents a difficulty. At present Garda strength is approximately 14,300, a substantially higher number than in many previous years - indeed at the height of the Troubles its numbers did not reach such levels. I have absolute confidence in the capacity and capability of the Garda Síochána to fulfil its duties in tackling all aspects of crime in this State with both the numbers it has now and those that will be available at the end of this year.

It is unfortunate and regrettable that this Government finds itself in a position where we cannot recruit new young people into the Garda Síochána. At the beginning of last year the previous Government advertised places for Garda recruits. There was also a reserve of individuals who hoped to be admitted to Templemore. Last autumn recruitment was effectively cancelled. No new recruits were taken into Templemore and the group of individuals who had hoped to join the Garda Síochána remain on the list. Unfortunately, we simply do not have the funding at this stage for additional recruits. However, given the current numbers of gardaí, the superb training they obtain and the technical and other assistance available to them, I am absolutely confident the Garda Síochána can fulfil its duty.

In no sense, should any message of any nature go out from this House that gardaí will not seek to ensure that communities across this country are protected. We should not suggest, even remotely, that they will not continue to conduct the tremendous type of investigative and preventive activities in dealing with subversives in which they have been engaged. Through the Garda Síochána we will continue to crack down hard on the drugs gangs, those engaged in criminality and those who in recent times seem to think they can turn this city into a replica of Kansas City in the 1860s, engaging in gun law shootings with impunity. Individuals who conduct themselves in that manner will be fully pursued by An Garda Síochána and will be brought before our courts, where appropriate prosecutions will be taken. As matters stand with Templemore in the context of the financial exigencies of this State, it would be regrettable to suggest either inside or outside this House that gardaí will be impeded in any way from fully achieving their objectives and conducting their duties.

I very much appreciate the consideration given to this matter by Members of the House and the very substantial support for the extension of these measures. If I remain as Minister for Justice and Equality next year, as I hope to, I would dearly love to come back to this House at this time next year and announce we have had to use none of these sections, that all subversive activity has ended, there has been no further loss of life, no individual has been injured as a consequence of subversive activity and not one further explosive device has been found in any part of this island nor has there been any threat of planting such a device anywhere on this island. If we could achieve that we would all happily end the annual visit to, and extension of, these sections. However, while we remain in circumstances where this threat continues to exist, as is clearly documented in the report before the House, it is of crucial public importance that we maintain usage of this legislation.