John Crown (Independent)

We have heard much about the primacy of education in developing the smart economy and at the same time we have heard of the inevitable decline in spending and resourcing which will occur as a result of our bizarre decision to conduct this unprecedented massive reverse Robin Hood foreign aid programme from some of the poorest people in our society to the some of the richest people in Europe who were foolish enough to think that Irish real estate was a clever way for them to spend the money over which they had fiduciary responsibility. As a result of that, we must be doubly smart in trying to squeeze the most we can out of the resources we have.

I know many teachers and it is my definite opinion that this is a profession that is under siege and which has a very low morale right now. Teachers are working very hard in increasingly difficult circumstances. They see themselves being a very easy target for cutbacks. There are all kinds of metrics which work in favour of reducing the resources which apply to them and at the same time we are told that if we are to save our country and its economy, we must have a fundamental reinvestment in the structures of education in the country. It is one thing to deplore and regret what is going on but it is another to try to look at creative solutions to see if there is anything we can do.

My question for the Minister of State and his other colleagues in the Department is whether we are certain we are using the resources available to their maximum efficiency. Are there many people employed by the Department of Education and Skills who contribute to the total numbers which are limited by the employment control framework who are not doing mainstream teaching jobs? What is the percentage of qualified teachers in the Department of Education and Skills who are teaching compared with those who are not? Is it possible that some of them could be redeployed to some front line teaching activities either as a full-time change of occupation or with some method of apportioning a certain number of weeks of the year for educational activities for a certain number of hours a week?

Even more radically, if we really are caught between twin millstones, as appears to be the case, one of which is a relatively large public service comprising people who, in general, are diligent in their duties but who are also, in most cases, performing tasks that may not be the most productive for society, are there people in administrative grades in education, the HSE, the Department of Health and elsewhere who could be redeployed to educational support activities? I am not advocating a cheap solution to stop us hiring teachers. We have 800 people at grade 8 level within the HSE who, in recognition of the fact that there was a certain level of overstaffing at that level, were offered by the previous Government the option of taking early retirement packages. Very few took those packages. Given that people signed up to permanent and pensionable jobs, have a reasonable expectation that their contracts will be kept and in respect of whom we have an ethical obligation to ensure their contracts are not terminated, is it not possible that we have an opportunity to suggest to them that we will let them stay in the State's permanent and pensionable employ while strongly offering them the opportunity for redeployment due to the circumstances of our current emergency? Many people with high educational qualifications in administrative jobs elsewhere in the public service could be redeployed to educational support activities, thereby freeing up our professional teachers for mainstream teaching activities. Will the Minister of State consider these two possible solutions to the problem?

Consider the big scale. I am reminded of the late Senator Everett Dirksen in America, who stated: "A billion here, a billion there, and pretty soon you are talking real money." If we are only discussing a shortfall of 125 or 160 teachers or reducing the numbers by 500, these numbers could be met through creative redeployment within the public service. I thank the Cathaoirleach and the Minister of State for their time.