Ivana Bacik (Independent)

Precisely, Hiroshima and Nagasaki. We are more familiar with that because that was on such a bigger scale.

That is not something that has been entirely left behind. The Minister pointed out that no state admits to having or developing biological weapons. No state acknowledges it posses such weapons or that it has a programme to develop them. There is no doubt that the international conventions have acted as a strong deterrent but it is a matter of concern that three states which are noteworthy are not party to the convention, namely, Israel, Egypt and Syria. At a time when we see Syria using dreadful force against its own citizens that is a matter of real concern.

There is also concern that Israel has used weapons in Gaza recently which are in breach of the convention. There have been concerns about Russia using such weapons in Chechnya, and we are aware of Saddam Hussein's use of chemical weapons against the Kurds in Iraq. There have certainly been relatively recent instances of states at least being suspected of using biological and chemical weapons, often against their own citizens.

This Bill and the international convention are not just directed at states but also at individual users of biological weapons owing to the growing fear of what is called bio-terrorism. The Minister of State referred to the 2001 incident in the US where a number of people were killed by the delivery of anthrax by mail. There was an immense public scare about that at the time. In 1994, a small cult from Japan released anthrax in Tokyo, and there have been periodic scares over the past two decades about further individual threats to use biological weapons to spread anthrax and other kinds of disease. There was a notable arrest in Manchester in 2002 of a number of people suspected of using an apartment as a ricin laboratory to produce toxins.

These periodic scares and incidents where biological weapons have been developed for the suspected purposes of bio-terrorism are cause for concern. They give us a practical reason for having legislation in place. If we see arrests in an apartment in Manchester or if we hear of anthrax being delivered through the post, clearly a matter of concern for states is that small-scale production is going on with the potential to cause immense harm and public scares.

Senator Walsh asked whether these offences should be capable of being prosecuted through summary procedure. Section 4, which deals with penalties, refers to summary convictions where the maximum penalty can only be a class A fine or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12 months. It seems somewhat hard to think of an offence under this Bill that would be capable of summary prosecution. In other words, such an offence would be regarded as minor, and I struggled with that concept. I was trying to think of someone who perhaps was very peripherally involved, living in an apartment where someone else was developing these weapons, yet who had sufficient knowledge about it that he or she could be prosecuted in a summary fashion. That is the only situation I can think of, but it seems more likely that this would be an indictable offence if someone were ever to be prosecuted. We hope that will not be the case and that this Bill will serve as a deterrent and fill a gap in our legislation.

Ireland has had a strong and proud record in promoting nuclear non-proliferation and the need to legislate at international level against weapons of mass destruction. I see this Bill as another step in our panoply of regulatory prohibitions against weapons capable of causing mass destruction. We have well-documented laws and conventions on chemical and nuclear weapons, and it seems very reasonable that we now pass this Bill on biological weapons. We all hope it will not be put into operation in any real way and that it will serve instead as a deterrent and will fulfil our international obligations. I welcome this Bill and I thank the Minister of State for her speech.