David Norris (Independent)

I welcome the Minister, Deputy Pat Carey, to what is probably his last appearance in either House of the Oireachtas. I am sad about the way this Parliament has disintegrated. I do not believe any party or individual has covered itself, himself or herself with glory. There is no question that every one of them was jockeying for position to gain political electoral advantage. The Green Party probably came out of it the cleanest but a fat lot of good that will do it. That is the problem. I agree with Senator Donohoe. We need from our politicians standards in public life, as well as honesty, decency and directness. We do not always get them, but there are people within all parties who provide them.

I listened to my colleague speak of moderation. There is a place for moderation but we need to know the temper of the times. Coming back from having been abroad for one day because the Seanad did not sit and I had an urgent appointment somewhere else, I was looking at things and thinking about it. It made me think of 1848 because this is not just in Ireland. We are foolish if we think we are culpable, that, as one of the columnists stated, we have been caught with our pants down and no other country has. We all are in it. Every Government across Europe is out of touch totally with the feelings of its people and their fury that they are being made pay for the crimes of treachery against the people by the large financial institutions and the golden circle. I refer not to the piddling little golden circle that is in operation in Ireland but to that right across Europe.

I must say with great sadness that I always have had a regard for the Minister for Finance, Deputy Brian Lenihan. As a Minister, he has behaved with integrity and courage in confronting difficult problems, both in his personal life with regard to his health and also with regard to the economy. However, I remember stating in this House that I did not agree with the approach taken by the Government. I voted against the bank guarantee. I came up three months before NAMA with an idea that was not entirely unlike NAMA and I warned that I felt the Government was doing it backwards and was getting it wrong. What I was saying and doing throughout that period of approximately a year was noted by a remarkable man of whom I had never heard previously, Mr. Peter Mathews. He stated that the broad outline of what I was saying was correct, he was on the same line as myself and he wanted to supply me with the figures. Thanks to Mr. Mathews, I have the figures accurately predicted in advance and, tragically, every one of them is correct.

I remember standing here and telling the Minister, Deputy Brian Lenihan, that I believed he was wrong. I took a completely different point of view, my analysis was done and I had been supplied with figures which appeared to show that clearly, but I hoped I was wrong and he was right. Sadly, I was right and he was wrong. This has created a difficult situation.

Some may think it is futile for this House to meet after the Bill has been passed by the other House. I heard a distinguished former Member of this House, who is now a member of the Opposition and who, I think, is shortly to be a member of Government, state in the Dáil that as far as he knew no amendments had ever been accepted, that we are not allowed make them. That is true to a certain extent. We are precluded by the Constitution. It is a particularly stupid provision because we could not make a bigger bags of it than those in the other House anyway no matter how hard we tried. However, there are provisions called recommendations. I had three and a half pages that I wrote included in the Finance Bill at the time by the former Taoiseach, Albert Reynolds, as a result of recommendations in this House. Let no one say that Seanad Éireann has never played a role. Admittedly, it was not a world-shaking provision. It was providing grant aid to the areas of the north inner city in Dublin. Perhaps it was parochial, but at least it showed that something could be done.

I listened with great respect to some of my colleagues. Senator O'Toole spoke about alternative energies or, as I would call them, natural energies, such as wind and wave energy. I would not be quite as despairing. I note there is tremendous innovation. I brought representatives of Wavebob to the House for consultation. It is a sophisticated engineering design challenge because of the number of variables involved in the movement of waves, but Wavebob appears to have solved that and to have a prototype. I very much hope we will be to the forefront on this.

I also agree with Senator O'Toole on the metro. Of course, I would. Why would I not? It was I who amended the Dublin transport Bill 15 years ago in a situation where the Government changed without an election which meant that the Independent Senators on the university panel held the balance of power. We argued hammer and tongs, time after time in the House, and Senator Quinn provided really strong support. Of course, I think the metro is important, despite the consistent and rather obscurely reasoned opposition by Mr. Frank McDonald in The Irish Times. I note with satisfaction that the professional assessor, in an independent assessment of this project, has stated it is a good thing because one must justify these matters economically if they are to be taken on board, especially in this difficult situation.

Section 23 relief has been mentioned. I am one of those who would pick and mix. If an idea is good on one side or another, it does not matter. I have been called a communist, a fascist, and this and that. I do not care. What we need is to think of the good of the people and implement whatever is in their interests. I also have been lobbied about section 23 relief. A person on the other side of the House stated they had received innumerable letters from lobbyists. I received only one, but it was very well argued. There is a case that small investors may have been unfairly caught in this and it is worth looking at that. I say this as no friend of any golden circle.

We need an entire review. For example, we need the position of the student body to be clearly determined. I have spoken on this rubbish about free fees on many occasions. I will not revisit it in any great detail, but the most vulnerable should have access, if they are properly qualified, to the educational system. I have told the students time and again that it all revolves around ensuring the means test is as high as possible.

I would make one practical suggestion in that regard. Let the incoming Government employ a person or group to conduct a survey and come up with a universal means test which could be included in the tax return and would be recorded in the computer in order that, at the push of a button, one would know where an individual stood. It is not beyond the capacity or the wit of man to devise such a means test in order that there would be a universal reading for every citizen showing where he or she stood. It is idiotic that every Department conducts its own. How stupid can one possibly get in this regard?

I very much regret that Senator Quinn's important Bill concerning subsidiary payments in the construction industry, which have led to disaster for small companies, will be mangled up in this political difficulty. I hope it will be resurrected by the incoming Government. While I am not sure that the Senator will be standing, I presume he would be elected were he to do so. If he is, I certainly will be happy to lend my support again to that important Bill.

I have listened to some of the contributions from politicians outside. I am afraid Mr. Gerry Adams did not know where the European money was coming from or going to. It was as simple as that. It was really an unfortunate contribution. From the point of view of his party, it would be better if he left that to Deputy Morgan, who is one of the few in that party who appears to know what he is talking about on the economy.

The former Taoiseach, Deputy Bertie Ahern, stated to the media that he wished someone somewhere had let him know that things were going wrong in the banks. Think about it for a minute. A former Minister for Finance wishes someone somewhere had let him know. He should have known.