David Norris (Independent)

There should be a debate on the situation regarding the banks and the contacts with senior members of the Government, particularly the Taoiseach - that was an astonishing revelation and I agree on this occasion with Senator Alex White. If the question of the dreadful situation at Anglo Irish Bank was not discussed, why not? It suggests that, over a period of many hours, this of all subjects, which every other person in the country was discussing at the time, was scrupulously avoided, as it was at the other social occasions. That certainly raises questions about the honour and credibility of the Taoiseach. One of the most interesting things is this information came apparently from Mr. Sean FitzPatrick. In drama, it is not always what is said, it is who says it. With regard to the Taoiseach's situation, to paraphrase the Marquess of Queensberry, I do not say that he is the thing but he has the appearance of it. He has an appearance that must be clarified because it has the clear appearance of acting without the kind of honour we expect.

I support Senator Leyden on the question of the Seanad. I am saddened to come back to the House to find that apparently every political party has spoken about the abolition of the House in one way or another. I regret this but I would, of course, as a democrat, support any call for a referendum. The people must decide but, following the McKenna judgment, it is a requirement that the people should be fully informed of both sides of the argument. The debate can be held here. There must also be the publication of a booklet and I suggest that the House's achievements, which are very often unrecorded in the media, should be listed and the full justification for Seanad Éireann should be published in it. However, the House would only deserve to survive if it were reformed. It is a question of either scrap it or reform it.